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Cora B
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Posted 23/05/2009 00:05:42
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Group: On Warning
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I detest being called Sister. It's a contintental thing and unfortunately my mother lodge decided some years ago to follow suit. We are the only lodge in the British Federation to follow that continental habit.
In continental context it makes sense - sort of. It's a socio-cultural thing: most continental European languages distinguish between gender, i.e. in Dutch a director of the male persuasion is referred as a 'directeur', whereas his female counterpart is called a 'directrice'.
Nevertheless, in freemasonry as whole, gender is irrelevant, and in co-freemasonry in particular -- in my personal opinion -- it has no place whatsoever no matter how you turn or twist it. Our masonic forebears went to great lengths to establish the right for women to join freemasonry on equal footing with men. How on earth does immediately distinguishing yourself on the basis of your gender by insisting on being referred to as "Sister" square with that?:blink:
No -- I don't know either.
S&F,
Cora
--
International Order of Co-Freemasonry "Le Droit Humain",
British Federation
Lodge Light of Amen-Ra No. 717, Orient of Surbiton
Lodge St Francis No. 817, Orient of Camberley
Mark Lodge Nephthys No. 32, Quarries of Surbiton
HRA Triangle The Hidden Glory, Vault of Surbiton
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Vintagemalt
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Posted 23/05/2009 00:26:21
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Hmmm interesting...On another thread we have homosexuals wanting to be defined as Pinks or Rainbows or something Now would that be Brother Rainbow or Sister Rainbow ... I wonder?
Stephen 
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Cora B
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Posted 23/05/2009 00:30:22
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Group: On Warning
Last Active: 22/03/2011 14:46:10
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Gosh VM, you just had to open that can didn't you ..?:P
Cora
--
International Order of Co-Freemasonry "Le Droit Humain",
British Federation
Lodge Light of Amen-Ra No. 717, Orient of Surbiton
Lodge St Francis No. 817, Orient of Camberley
Mark Lodge Nephthys No. 32, Quarries of Surbiton
HRA Triangle The Hidden Glory, Vault of Surbiton
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Vintagemalt
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Posted 23/05/2009 00:31:12
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Cora B (22/05/2009)
Mike Lawrence (22/05/2009)
Could anybody please explainwhy lady Freemasons are called "brother"?Same reason you are. "Rise, duly obligated Brother among freemasons." My gender has nothing do with it; I am a Brother among freemasons. S&F, Sorry NO NO NO ! It has everything to do with it! brother • noun 1 a man or boy in relation to other children of his parents. 2 a male associate or fellow member of an organization. 3 (pl. also brethren) a (male) fellow Christian. 4 a member of a religious order of men: a Benedictine brother. 5 N. Amer. informal a black man. From the Oxford English Dictionary http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/brother?view=uk You will never be a brother and I will never be a sister. That is a fact of the English Language. Stephen
Stephen
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Cora B
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Posted 23/05/2009 00:49:53
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Group: On Warning
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Stephen,
you're trying to define the reception, creation and constitution of a mason in mundane terms. Grammar may be a liberal art, but it fails to capture the full meaning of that which is conveyed in that moment of reception into a lodge an ancient, free and accepted masons.
"Brother" is an honorific title given to anyone who has passed the trials and tribulations of a masonic initiation. Not all rituals will do this so obviously, but in mine it is explicitly stated: "Rise, duly obligated Brother among freemasons."
I see neither conflict nor correlation between a title awarded to, as my ritual says "the worthy alone", and the gender of its bearer. I do however know some of my Brn:. belonging to masculine jurisdictions find it difficult to get their heads around that, so I promise not to bite your head off if you should inadvertently call me "Sister" -- however much I detest it. :)
S&F,
Cora
--
International Order of Co-Freemasonry "Le Droit Humain",
British Federation
Lodge Light of Amen-Ra No. 717, Orient of Surbiton
Lodge St Francis No. 817, Orient of Camberley
Mark Lodge Nephthys No. 32, Quarries of Surbiton
HRA Triangle The Hidden Glory, Vault of Surbiton
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lauderdale
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Posted 23/05/2009 00:55:33
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I am with Bro Cora on this and for the same reasons. I have seen many a woman being "Made a Mason" indeed I will be assisting in such a Ceremony as I have done quite a few times now as WSW of one of my Lodges and I know that the words will be "Rise newly Obligated BROTHER amongst Masons" , the same as I heard said to me on December 12th 1988 and was myself to say when 7 years later I was to Initiate someone into Freemasonry and which words I had heard many times before and since. I have no interest in semantics, to me someone Initiated into Freemasonry is a BROTHER, be they Male, Female, Transgendered or have undergone Gender Reassignment Surgery. It is what is inside the person, the SOUL which matters to me, not the package in which it is contained nor the genitalia thereof.
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Vintagemalt
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Posted 23/05/2009 11:37:46
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Cora B (23/05/2009)
Stephen,
you're trying to define the reception, creation and constitution of a mason in mundane terms. Grammar may be a liberal art, but it fails to capture the full meaning of that which is conveyed in that moment of reception into a lodge an ancient, free and accepted masons.
"Brother" is an honorific title given to anyone who has passed the trials and tribulations of a masonic initiation. Not all rituals will do this so obviously, but in mine it is explicitly stated: "Rise, duly obligated Brother among freemasons."
S&F,
I am sorry Cora but I believe you are seriously misguided here, Equally I do not wish to upset anyone. But, the English language is the way we communicate. It is NOT mundane, unimportant or to be dismissed so lightly. You cannot have it both ways you say it is important to use the English language to address you as Brother but you say, or imply, that the English language cannot express the term in anything other than what you describe as mundane terms. This is gobbledook (good english word?) and does not make sense. It is an undisputable fact that in the language that we all communicate in Brother refers to a Male person or entity as defined in the O.E.D. I can find no definiition in any dictionary or in history that refers to a female person as Brother. Any more than I can find a Female monarch referred to as a King or any other such example. You may well not like it but Lady Masons are not, and never will be, Brothers to anyone. Quite frankly I personally honour the differences between the sexes and have no wish to ever put them in the same gender in language or any other way. I do not wish to be married to my brother it is absurd. It is very sad that ladies wish to be known as males in any form of modern society although I do recognise that some of them do. Stephen
Stephen
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Roy V
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Posted 23/05/2009 12:46:33
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Stephen, I don't think you will win an argument with Cora on English grammar. She has learnt English as a foreign language and, in the way of many Dutch people, gramers it and spels it much better than many English people, including several here. I think it best to acknowledge that her title within her own Masonic Obedience may appear wrong to our ears, but it is their own business.I call the lady 'Cora' when I communicate with her (and hope to meet with her soon). There is no need to attribute an honorific of any sort - Keith has that right. When Cora goes into the Chair of that organisation which practises a form of FM similar to malecraft (but not accepted in amity for inter-visitation), she will be called "Right Worshipful Brother" I believe. Nah. I would have to be Pro Provincial Grand Master to earn that accolade. So keep the titles in their proper places. You Stephen, me Roy, her Cora. That way, even if you don't agree that female- or co-masonry is kosher, we can meet on the level. Cora, mine's a Geneva! Stephen, surprise me! So why not just put this discussion down to another unfortunate post by Mike Lawrence, who hasn't been here long enough to know wherein many dragons lie.
PM 5770Middlesex
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Vintagemalt
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Posted 23/05/2009 13:02:08
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Roy V (23/05/2009)
Stephen, So why not just put this discussion down to another unfortunate post by Mike Lawrence, who hasn't been here long enough to know wherein many dragons lie. Stephen, surprise me! Ok Roy, Well many dragons lie under the castle at Disneyland, a few people I know of seem to lurk there to. How about a nice large 30yr old Glenfarclas, Stephen
Stephen
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Cora B
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Posted 23/05/2009 18:42:05
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Group: On Warning
Last Active: 22/03/2011 14:46:10
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Good call Roy -- no point wasting time on minutiae so strongly informed by personal preferences.:D
Cora
--
International Order of Co-Freemasonry "Le Droit Humain",
British Federation
Lodge Light of Amen-Ra No. 717, Orient of Surbiton
Lodge St Francis No. 817, Orient of Camberley
Mark Lodge Nephthys No. 32, Quarries of Surbiton
HRA Triangle The Hidden Glory, Vault of Surbiton
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