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Lew Finnis
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Posted 14/12/2008 22:20:08
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There is one Grand Lodge which claims to be older than UGLE and which dates from the time of the Anglo-Saxon King Athelstan in York although it does not have continuity of operation.
I think that must go down as the understatement of the year! This so-called Grand Lodge is a fairly recent creation by some who left UGLE, trying to use the name of a Grand Lodge which disappeared over 200 years ago - and that was after a similar revival, as it had first vanished in, I think, the 1740s.
Craft 8093 PProvGSD (Worcs); 881 (GL/BFG) PDepGDC
RA 784 PProvGReg (Worcs)
Mark 152 590(Hon) 1406 PProvGMOv (Worcs)
RAM 152 590(Hon) ProvRAMGR
KT 52 325 PGtCofG
OSM 305 436 513 PGStwd
RC 908 30°
etc
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Alan Campbell
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Posted 14/12/2008 22:53:14
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I and most on this forum,especially the ones who have been here a wee while, have heard of this grand lodge. Me personally i think the brothers who have created it(not reponed as they believe) are just a bit disilusioned with UGLE and wanted to do something to try and get in there faces. To try and repone something that hasn't existed in 200 years is just ridiculous. but i don't want to go down that road again.
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bob c
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Posted 15/12/2008 08:35:31
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In Scotland we can repone lodges but there must be at least one member of the original lodge alive and willing to become part of it again.If the same applies in England then those brethren are wearing very well. No hard paper rounds in York:D
regards
bob
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Compass
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Posted 17/12/2008 17:35:02
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As much as you say people perpetuate stories about the masonic connections, which may be true, there are valid arguments to suggest that columbus was not the first to visit america.Not only is there talk that the vikings had populated some of north east coast there are buildings like the newport tower mystery and the The Westford Knight to think about! I do not believe we should dismiss these theories as readily as some people do although there is also evidence aginst the above which should not be ignored.
S&F
Mark
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Russell Holland
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Posted 22/12/2008 04:55:45
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I seem to recall that when the Masonic KT emerged in England it shared head quarters with Royal Ark Mariners and used RAM as an introductory degree
What does it mean?
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lauderdale
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Posted 22/12/2008 09:11:26
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Bro Russell, there are many Degrees and Orders based at Mark Masons Hall in London as well as Mark. I don't think there is any Esoteric significance in this but simply an administrative convenience.
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Russell Holland
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Posted 22/12/2008 11:13:58
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Brother Lauderdale
I am not sure I made myself clear. As far as I recall, before ever RAM was attached to Mark, it emerged fully formed about the same time as KT emerged fully formed. And both KT and RAM used the same head quarters (not in London as I recall) and KT used RAM as an introductory degree before entering KT
Why was it so?
(By fully formed I mean that the governing body announced itself first - as compared with craft lodges where Grand Lodges came later)
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Lew Finnis
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Posted 22/12/2008 13:21:28
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No doubt due to the involvement of Thomas Dunckerley who was a driving force in many of the degrees developed in the mid to late 18th Century. Remember that the Antients' Grand Lodge allowed their lodges to work just about any degree they wanted to under their warrant, but this ended in 1813 due to the Duke of Sussex 'sitting on' all the side degrees. Eventually separate organisations arose, with most ending up being run from MMH. I believe that RAM had to be 'purchased' from a Brother who claimed to have the sole right to the degree in England. It's all in 'The Arch and the Rainbow' by Neville Barker-Cryer but I haven't got time to dig out the reference right now.
Craft 8093 PProvGSD (Worcs); 881 (GL/BFG) PDepGDC
RA 784 PProvGReg (Worcs)
Mark 152 590(Hon) 1406 PProvGMOv (Worcs)
RAM 152 590(Hon) ProvRAMGR
KT 52 325 PGtCofG
OSM 305 436 513 PGStwd
RC 908 30°
etc
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Russell Holland
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Posted 23/12/2008 01:50:37
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Lew
Thanks. I have just requested the book from the library service.
Of course the question still remains as to whether such degrees had previous pedigrees unknown to craft Masonry. I suspect that they did.
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Terry
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Posted 23/12/2008 09:03:15
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Bro Russell,Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, and I tend to agree with your line of thinking, Regards
Terry Ryan
Tamworth Australia
Regards
Terry
Tamworth 652
Australia
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