Why do some Freemasons think we have a Knights Templar connction?

cuthbert (22/09/2009)

AJM (22/09/2009)

Sounds like a fraud to me Cuthbert! I had mine checked first...

Mmm, I'll make an example.

I know some italian freemasons who claim to have found a old list of members of an operative lodge in Bologna from 1248. In this list it seems that there are the names of two templar knights.

This document is supposed to be in custody of the University of Bologna, Faculty of Architecture, and the masonic researcher who supposedly found it in the late 80s is a 33rd degree AASR and (in)famous professor of the University.

The story therefore sounds verosimile, the problem is that they always denied access to this document.

I don't know of course but I've always assumed that anyone who makes claims like this and then refuses to show the evidence is talking a load of old bologna...

I am sure that our Italian cousins, if in true possession of such a document would be only happy to share it.

For some reason the scene in "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" where the French are taunting from the castle parapet comes to mind, don't know why...

Author	Message
cuthbert	Posted 22/09/2009 10:38:50
Journeyman Group: Forum Member Last Active: 31/01/2012 21:21:46 Posts: 75, Visits: 252 115	AJM (22/09/2009) That sounds interesting. Pity access is denied. What is the source for this claim? A quick email to the university will clear it up. On my list of things to do! :) The problem for me is that the inclusion of only two Templars doesn't necessarily indicate a strong link between the two orders. Saying that, it is (or would be if it were true) a nice bit of research. I think there shouldn't be a problem about the name of the author, he is Eugenio Bonvicini, the book where he presented his discovery is the following: http://www.ibs.it/code/9788871690025/bonvicini-eugenio/massoneria-antica-dalla.html He is very well known in the italian AASR, at least he was, now he should be around his 90s. The problem that I have is that the many of the members of the Grand Orient of Italy are using this document as a "weapon" to prove that they are older than the british Grand Lodges, that because in 1993 UGLE withdrew his recognisement of the GOI, with the result that they got very bitter and they are trying to re-write our History. Oh, being a english freemason in Italy is not fun, at all. SW, Kensington Lodge 1767 ASJ Chapter Forum 4423
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AJM	Posted 22/09/2009 11:04:27
Apprentice Group: Forum Member Last Active: 16/06/2011 14:48:33 Posts: 33, Visits: 445 93	Is this the Bologna Statutes, or Carta di Bologna? ________________________________________________________ Official Website
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AJM	Posted 22/09/2009 11:37:13
Apprentice Group: Forum Member Last Active: 16/06/2011 14:48:33 Posts: 33, Visits: 445 93	Cuthbert, I am very interested in what Eugenio Bonvicini had to say. I am puzzled however, since the text of the charter is well known to me and I am wondering if he found an appended list not previously known. Do you have any other info on this? P.S Life's too short for me to debate with you Bod. :) ________________________________________________________ Official Website
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cuthbert	Posted 22/09/2009 12:00:18
Journeyman Group: Forum Member Last Active: 31/01/2012 21:21:46 Posts: 75, Visits: 252 115	AJM (22/09/2009) Is this the Bologna Statutes, or Carta di Bologna? Carta di Bologna, bro.AJM. As far as I understood it's a gothic constitution, and that books deals with gothic documents from 1248 to 1717. SW, Kensington Lodge 1767 ASJ Chapter Forum 4423
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cuthbert	Posted 22/09/2009 12:06:16
Journeyman Group: Forum Member Last Active: 31/01/2012 21:21:46 Posts: 75, Visits: 252 115	AJM (22/09/2009) Cuthbert, I am very interested in what Eugenio Bonvicini had to say. I am puzzled however, since the text of the charter is well known to me and I am wondering if he found an appended list not previously known. Do you have any other info on this? P.S Life's too short for me to debate with you Bod. :) I may try to collect more informations, I've Bonvicini's book on the AASR, interesting reading, but I don't have that particular volume, and it's a bit expensive as well...:P P.S.It may be of interest to try to contact him but as said before the brethren of Bologna aren't very...well inclined towards members of UGLE. Besides that, they said that Bonvicini in the last years became a little..ehm difficult to reach. You may try to get his book though although it's pretty rare because the publishing house Atanor is extinct. SW, Kensington Lodge 1767 ASJ Chapter Forum 4423
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AJM	Posted 22/09/2009 12:07:04
Apprentice Group: Forum Member Last Active: 16/06/2011 14:48:33 Posts: 33, Visits: 445 93	Is it possible then that the list he writes of was added later? A fascinating detour Cuthbert. Thank you for bringing it to my attention! ________________________________________________________ Official Website
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dp	Posted 22/09/2009 14:50:16
Past Master Group: Forum Member Last Active: 08/01/2012 18:59:22 Posts: 1,082, Visits: 3,065 1,259	cuthbert (22/09/2009) AJM (22/09/2009) Sounds like a fraud to me Cuthbert! I had mine checked first... Mmm, I'll make an example. I know some italian freemasons who claim to have found a old list of members of an operative lodge in Bologna from 1248. In this list it seems that there are the names of two templar knights. This document is supposed to be in custody of the University of Bologna, Faculty of Architecture, and the masonic researcher who supposedly found it in the late 80s is a 33rd degree AASR and (in)famous professor of the University. The story therefore sounds verosimile, the problem is that they always denied access to this document. I don't know of course but I've always assumed that anyone who makes claims like this and then refuses to show the evidence is talking a load of old bologna... I am sure that our Italian cousins, if in true possession of such a document would be only happy to share it. For some reason the scene in "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" where the French are taunting from the castle parapet comes to mind, don't know why...
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AJM	Posted 22/09/2009 16:14:17
Apprentice Group: Forum Member Last Active: 16/06/2011 14:48:33 Posts: 33, Visits: 445 93	I don't know of course but I've always assumed that anyone who makes claims like this and then refuses to show the evidence is talking a load of old bologna... I'm inclined to agree, dp. If the author is sure enough of his work, he should release it. ...if in true possession of such a document would be only happy to share it. Especially if it is to be considered a powerful argument of one GL over another. ________________________________________________________ Official Website
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bob c	Posted 29/09/2009 10:42:37
Master Group: Forum Member Last Active: Yesterday @ 16:35:29 Posts: 518, Visits: 1,564 798	Am I right in saying that AJM's thesis starts at £500 to buy? regards bob
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lauderdale	Posted 29/09/2009 12:16:15
Excellent Master Group: Forum Member Last Active: 10/07/2011 06:43:06 Posts: 2,136, Visits: 4,278 2,476	Ah, so there IS a commercial element in this? Don't get me wrong, if someone, e.g. Knight and Lomas, Dan Brown, etc write a book then they should get their due reward if it sells. Is AJM selling a book or a thesis on the Templar - Mason connection?
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Why do some Freemasons think we have a Knights Templar connction?

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