Why do some Freemasons think we have a Knights Templar connction?

Hi Mike

In a lot of the older Scottish lodges you will see vast differences not in the spoken ritual as such where there is some but not much, But in the movements and circumambulations.

I think this stemmed from GLOS not standardizing practices as happened in other places, Lodges are encouraged to keep there uniquness. Hence the candidate placed on the mark of the summer solstice (NE corner ) then the SE corner (spring equinox ) winter St john when we hold a full festival ( winter solstice ) where a silent toast is held by all during procedings. This festival is unique to my own mother lodge,

The Alter is central which the circumambulations are carried out and the tools and laws sit dead center ( Point within the circle )

Each point a candidate is taken to throughout his degrees has a significant point relating to the earth sun stars and moon, I often wonder if the words have changed and adapted throughout the years, but the circumambulations have remained as a remenant of past practices. I think if all were to be standerdised so much would be lost. Each of the older lodges we visit here adds another piece to the story. And it makes visiting other lodges so good to see the differences and see what it adds to your personal understanding.

I personaly think that to see the same workings each time you visit a lodge with the same words and the same movements would become somewhat tedious. The unique nature of each lodge is to me what keeps freemasonry so interesting, You learn from each visit.

Cheers, Iain

Dumbarton Kilwinning Lodge No 18

Author	Message
Iain	Posted 20/05/2009 14:47:18
Master Group: Forum Member Last Active: 17/11/2011 12:26:40 Posts: 588, Visits: 770 674	Hi Mike In a lot of the older Scottish lodges you will see vast differences not in the spoken ritual as such where there is some but not much, But in the movements and circumambulations. I think this stemmed from GLOS not standardizing practices as happened in other places, Lodges are encouraged to keep there uniquness. Hence the candidate placed on the mark of the summer solstice (NE corner ) then the SE corner (spring equinox ) winter St john when we hold a full festival ( winter solstice ) where a silent toast is held by all during procedings. This festival is unique to my own mother lodge, The Alter is central which the circumambulations are carried out and the tools and laws sit dead center ( Point within the circle ) Each point a candidate is taken to throughout his degrees has a significant point relating to the earth sun stars and moon, I often wonder if the words have changed and adapted throughout the years, but the circumambulations have remained as a remenant of past practices. I think if all were to be standerdised so much would be lost. Each of the older lodges we visit here adds another piece to the story. And it makes visiting other lodges so good to see the differences and see what it adds to your personal understanding. I personaly think that to see the same workings each time you visit a lodge with the same words and the same movements would become somewhat tedious. The unique nature of each lodge is to me what keeps freemasonry so interesting, You learn from each visit. Cheers, Iain Dumbarton Kilwinning Lodge No 18
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Terry	Posted 20/05/2009 22:06:39
Master Group: Forum Member Last Active: 08/01/2011 05:46:01 Posts: 586, Visits: 765 748	Hi Chris, I'm with Mike and Lauderdale, would love to read this association with KT's, the romantic in me wishes it was so, and as I've said before, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence Regards Terry Tamworth 652 Australia
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Brother_TJ	Posted 23/06/2009 01:30:26
Fellow Group: Forum Member Last Active: 17/01/2012 00:42:17 Posts: 247, Visits: 376 312	Misconception. Just like the 'Witchcraft is Satanism' misconception, but the truth is witchcraft predates Christianity and therefore do not believe in Satan. Yet, you can have Satanic witches but are not be confused with Seax-Wicans (Saxon Wiccans) or Druid witches. Knights Templar and the Masonic Templar Knights are a different fish and that fish may swim in either fresh water or salt water and rarely do they adapt, therefore they are different. .·.·.·.·.·.·.·.·.·.·.·. Amethyst Lodge No. 2, Orient of Tulsa, Oklahoma and Isis Lodge No. 3, Orient of Oklahoma City, Oklahoma...A.F.H.R.
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bob c	Posted 24/06/2009 22:09:02
Master Group: Forum Member Last Active: Yesterday @ 16:35:29 Posts: 518, Visits: 1,564 798	Terry (20/05/2009) absence of evidence is not evidence of absence Hi Terry, Does this not pave the way for anyone, to make anything up, wthout evidence or research? This has happened in several modern books that have been written about our order and the KT. One claimed that there were 33 degrees in the Royal Arch. Chris, Perhaps you have the rituals for them;) My own opinion is that Scottish Freemasonry came from the Incorporations as they, plus the lodges, evolved side by side at the time. Then England pinched the lodge idea:w00t: regards bob
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Terry	Posted 25/06/2009 03:00:13
Master Group: Forum Member Last Active: 08/01/2011 05:46:01 Posts: 586, Visits: 765 748	bob c (24/06/2009) Does this not pave the way for anyone, to make anything up, wthout evidence or research? Hi Bob C,Yes you are correct and it has happened, but also if we take Troy as an example, what I was stating is correct too, and I tend to agree that it appears that freemasonry as we know came from Scotland Regards Terry Tamworth 652 Australia
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lauderdale	Posted 25/06/2009 09:42:47
Excellent Master Group: Forum Member Last Active: 10/07/2011 06:43:06 Posts: 2,136, Visits: 4,278 2,476	Was not Freemasonry, however it originated way back in history, brought from Scotland to England at the time of the Restoration of the Monarchy by General Monck's soldiers? General Monck was to become Duke of Albemarle for his part in restoring Charles II to the Throne.
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Brother_TJ	Posted 04/09/2009 15:30:18
Fellow Group: Forum Member Last Active: 17/01/2012 00:42:17 Posts: 247, Visits: 376 312	In our Order we don't honor the Knights Templar (3.d) in the York Rites. No invitation, no Preceptories, no Order of the Malta. We have the Mark, Ark, Holy Royal Arch. As for any Chapter (Commandery in the U.S.) in which you are ask to join (called upon) we don't have this, to my knowledge. I am not a member of the Holy Royal Arch which I have heard is a massive undertaking from what I heard. I can't imagine what the Order of the Preceptories (Commandery) is like. There is no direct relation with the historic KT and the Masonic KT. .·.·.·.·.·.·.·.·.·.·.·. Amethyst Lodge No. 2, Orient of Tulsa, Oklahoma and Isis Lodge No. 3, Orient of Oklahoma City, Oklahoma...A.F.H.R.
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Alan Campbell	Posted 04/09/2009 22:46:02
Past Master Group: Forum Member Last Active: 04/02/2012 12:02:46 Posts: 1,247, Visits: 2,228 1,391	TJ, You have said that your order does have commanderies, and that it has orders to which you are NOT a member. How can you know for sure that it has no connection whatsoever with the KT's if you are not in it?
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Russell Holland	Posted 06/09/2009 01:42:32
Master Group: Forum Member Last Active: 11/12/2011 21:12:13 Posts: 334, Visits: 2,812 529	Brother_TJ (04/09/2009) There is no direct relation with the historic KT and the Masonic KT. That is probably true in the public domain, but what if there were bloodline rituals - held in families? These might be referred to generically as "sons of" orders. Could it be that some "sons of" rituals are restricted to particular clans or families? Could there have been some specific families behind the KT which maintained their knowledge and rituals ready for another attempt at establishing external orders?
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lauderdale	Posted 06/09/2009 09:13:43
Excellent Master Group: Forum Member Last Active: 10/07/2011 06:43:06 Posts: 2,136, Visits: 4,278 2,476	Bro Russell, I to feel that those KTs who escaped after 1307 may well have gone underground and secretly maintained their traditions and knowledge veiled in allegories and legends. These may well have informed the nascent Freemasonry in Scotland and which came down to England at the Restoration of the Monarcy. Alas, like many matters Masonic, there is no definitive proof in the shape of documents etc to prove or disprove this.
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Why do some Freemasons think we have a Knights Templar connction?