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Why do some Freemasons think we have a Knights Templar connction?

Posted By Mike Lawrence 12/05/2009 07:38:55
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Why do some Freemasons think we have a Knights Templar connction?

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Mike Lawrence
 Posted 18/05/2009 06:39:22
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Hi Russell

You make some interesting points, and I would be pleased to hear of any spiritual or esoteric teachings that may apply to both groups.

Thus far, many of the books I have read seem to be full of references to Rosslyn and how the masonic teachings (I'm not sure to what teachings are being referred to here) came from the East.

Well of course, all learning originally came from the East, as that was where man first chose to record his activities.

Much reference is made to certain carvings of a man in a blindfold, wearing an apron with his hand on a book. I think it was Lomas and knight that suggested this was a masonic initiation.

However, as far as my understanding goes, the book could not have been a bible as they were not available till a century or so after the statue was carved. It may have been a book of constitutions which every operative mason apprentice (and all apprentices of any trade come to that) was expected to take his oath upon. That was common practice during these times and a requirement by law, certainly in England at the time, and I guess later, the Schaw Statutes would have required the same.

As for the apron, this also was the garb of an operative mason so there's nothing new there.

As for the hoodwink, I've yet to research, least to say that in any of the old lodge minutes (pre 1717)  and old MS charges I've read, there is no reference to being hoodwinked.

Personally looking at the carving, and in line with all the out carvings that can be seen, I would hazard a guess to say that it was a carving of a young apprentice being taken into the trade.

Of course, it could always be the young apprentice that carved the apprentice pillar, you know the one that out shone his master, so master killed him, but thats purely guess work.

Many thanks for your input into this thread.

  

Russell Holland
 Posted 18/05/2009 08:37:15
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>I would be pleased to hear of any spiritual or esoteric teachings that may apply to both groups.

It may be better to ask what agendas might underlie both groups.

If there are agendas behind those groups - how are they being held?

There are worse places to start than:

- Holy Blood Holy Grail
- The Twelfth Planet
- The Hiram Key

In that order.



Mike Lawrence
 Posted 18/05/2009 12:19:37
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Hi Russell

Have read the Holy Blood and the Holy Grail, and the Hiram Key some time back, maybe I'll revisit them.

I have met Henry Lincoln, co-author of that book along with Lyn Picknett co-author of the Templar Revelation at a local symposium, the day was very long and heavy as there was about ten lectures by various authors.

The twelfth planet I never heard of, is it a good read?

What I have difficulty in getting my head around is what is so secret about the KT that Freemasonry now possesses!

Anything that was hidden at Rosslyn or even Rennes, was done long before Freemasonry as we know it was conceived. And if the St.Clairs had any secrets to hold onto, what are they and how do they effect us now?

Do you consider what the KT held is more spiritual or esoteric?

Are those the secrets?

Russell Holland
 Posted 18/05/2009 23:43:44
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>The twelfth planet I never heard of, is it a good read?

Generally speaking the questions are in Holy Blood Holy Grail and the answers are in the 12th Planet

http://www.amazon.com/12th-Planet-Earth-Chronicles-Book/dp/038039362X

>What I have difficulty in getting my head around is what is so secret about the KT that Freemasonry now possesses!

The difficulty is the frame of reference. Humans like to believe that the human race is free-standing and independent of all other intelligent species (if any). This view is only of value to some politicians and religious leaders.

>Do you consider what the KT held is more spiritual or esoteric?

KT in my view is one of the activities of a group of intelligences entrusted with steering the ark of the Earth to its appointed place. (You may recall that when the Masonic KT re-emerged they used Royal Ark Mariners as the entry degree)

>Are those the secrets?

You can start with identifying the quinotaur and his compatriots.

Terry
 Posted 19/05/2009 01:01:48
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Mike & Russell,

I have to say I am enjoying your posts, I have read both holy grail and Hiram Key, but will now get 12th planet,

Yes, there does seem some mystery to KT's can't put my finger on it, although I strongly identify with Kt's, it seems to be esoteric in meaning, and I will post some items on the esoteric nature of this thread from another one I am on, I hasten to add, not my own, but others who have far more knowledge than myself

Regards
Terry
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Terry
 Posted 19/05/2009 06:56:09
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This is also from another list, and I have written none of the below

We have been having a discussion on the UKMason List regarding who can join the Knights Templar in the UK where it is required to express a faith in the 'Christian Trinity'. However, the obligation is taken in the name of the 'Holy, Blessed and Glorious Trinity' and requires you to 'defend the Christian Faith'. Does this obligation preclude a mason who is not a Trinitarian Christian' (or even a Christian) from becoming a Knight Templar? Comments already made have included 'as a Mason I feel obliged to defend all faiths' and a Jewish brother who is a KT who told me 'I follow the faith of Jesus, so how can I be excluuded?' There is also a feeling that if Craft/HRAC only requires a belief in a Supreme Being (and being a HRAC Companion is a qualification for membership of the KT) then there should be no masonic orders that require a specific faith for membership.
« Last Edit: Mar 23, 2009, 2:15am by terry »


Regards
Terry
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Russell Holland
 Posted 19/05/2009 09:05:37
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St Augustine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustine_of_Canterbury (7th century AD) tells us that Christianity existed from the beginning of the world but that only recently has it been called by that name.

With that view one might be a Christian without adhering to any particular church or doctrine of the last 2000 years.

I also note that threefold structures (trinities) underpin Creation in this system so that a belief in a holy trinity is a belief in the nature of reality

In my view therefore it is a private matter for the applicant for the KT as to which form or non-form of Christianity he or she follows.

Mike Lawrence
 Posted 19/05/2009 10:20:32
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I guess one don't have to attach themselves to a faith to be capable of good works...does one?

This Trinitarian tenet or belief is certainly a requirement to join A & AR (Rose Croix) and please correct me if I'm wrong Red Cross of Constantine.

So obviously KT has a very strong Christian element or message?

lauderdale
 Posted 19/05/2009 10:32:26
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Yes indeed. KTs, and thus KTPs, RCC, A&ASR (Rose Croix), St Thomas of Acon all require a Declaration of support for The Christian Trintarian Faith at least here in the UK, (I am not sure if non-Christians can join these orders or their equivalent in the USA and elsewhere).

Like many matters in Freemasonry such a Declaration by a Candidate would be taken on Trust, nobody asks for a Baptismal Certificate, or a Letter from their Vicar, Minister or Pastor, there is no examination on Biblical Knowledge or matters of Faith or Doctrine. As with the "Atheist" thread some time ago, there would in practice be nothing to stop a non-Christian from keeping that to themselves and becoming a KT etc if they really wanted to. However, I cannot see what would appeal to someone who did not believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God in what are very overtly Christian Degrees? Certainly I have found that membership of these Chivalric Orders has greatly enhanced my Christian Faith .
Mike Martin
 Posted 19/05/2009 10:35:14
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I do wonder why anyone would question the requirement to be Christian when joining a Masonic Order which was clearly dreamt up to be an homage to the most famous of the Christian Military and Monastic Orders of all time.

 Mike
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