This is my first topic suggestion, this time around, as I was a "forumite" several years ago, so forgive me if you have covered this subject recently...if thats the case then perhaps some kind brother will point me to the appropriate forum section.

Anyway, here goes.....

Why do some Freemasons believe that the Craft originated or were influenced by the Knights Templars?

What actual evidence is there?

I have read many books which deliver theory after theory much without any substance and I therefore would be grateful to any brother that might share his views on this topic.

I know we all have our pet theories on the KT subject, so please post them and lets try to sift the truth from the fanicful.

Many thanks 

As far as Im aware there is no evidence linking the KT's to masonry, buts its romantic, and is a better explanation then saying 1717, but we know nothing;),

Anyway, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence

Regards
Terry
Tamworth 652
Australia

Here in the states KT is part of the Masonic Family as York Rite. Many Masonic Temples have KT rooms in it.

Like this room found on the sixth floor of the Detroit Masonic Temple. This room is four stories tall, this room is half way up the ritualistic tower. The cross that you see is dead center of the tower.

Tom Cherup 32°
Olive Branch Lodge #542
Dearborn, Michigan
Scottish Rite - Valley of Detroit
Detroit Masonic Temple - It''s bigger than yours!

Many thanks for your comments and yes you are right!...So many of our theories of origin are so romantic....not sure why. Anyway, I don't have a problem with 1717 as a formal start date, especially if we understand that the start date was a result of a retropective account of that first asembly of London masons which Anderson wrote in the first and second Books of Constitution. (1724 &1738 if my memory serves me correct)

My problem is how we got involved in this Knights Templar business, particularly when both the official Knights Templar organisation and the Masonic Knights Templar Order make no claim of connection what so ever.

Thanks for your response Terry

Thanks for taking the time to reply. I guess latterly, Hollywood hasn't helped with some of it's output, but I think it all started way back in about 1734 when the Chevalier Andrew Michael Ramsey delivered his oration (in France) making that very first connection between KT, the crusades and Freemasonry. If you haven't read the oration I will gladly let you have details of the salient points.

In England, we too have KT Preceptories meeting in our Lodge rooms, but not part of the York Rite, the York Rite is not practised here, neither is KT part of what we might accept as Pure Antient Masonry although many Grand Lodge officers patronise the Order.

Many thanks for your comments.

There was a definite attempt to make Freemasonry "time immemorial", but there was never at attempt made by Anderson, Desegulier, Payne etc., to make any connection with the Crusades or KT.

Anderson was certainly pretty flamboyant with his Craft history found in the 1738 Constitutions, in fact anybody who was anybody who had patronised architecture in any way in history was recorded as being a Grand Master or at least a Grand Warden.

He was obviously the romantic one!

Many thanks for your comments!

Thanks for joining this thread.

What I am looking for are the reasons, evidence etc., why we make this connection.

There are so many wild claims made in so many well written and eloquent books, but there is little hard evidence, only theory and assumption.

Sadly I am one of those that consider there must be a basis, platform or standard for any statement. Otherwise anybody could say anything they liked and the world would be in chaos as a result.

Take the Iraq war for example. Britain went to war on the advice that Iraq held weapons of mass destruction...quite simply they did not, and as a result, many innocent people died.

As for the KT "in spirit" or "reincarnation" you suggest, I know exactly what you mean, but the world has been full of fraternities since man felt it necessary to put pen to paper and record his actions, C.4000 bc. In particular the Roman Collegia and the Commacine Masters, builders of great renown, fidelity and loyalty....why not these earlier groups?

Once again, many thanks for your comments.