If the postion of Tyler was/is used in your Lodge is it best to be before or after WM?
Progressing towards the chair
15.79%
9 votes
Progressing after the chair
84.21%
48 votes
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ChrisH1
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Posted 19/12/2011 16:55:51
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Following on the discussion about being a Tyler within your own Lodge, I wonder how many feel this is a job that should be reserved for after your year in the chair or before it?
I look forward to see if one view is stronger than the other!
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3GP441
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Posted 19/12/2011 17:02:31
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Ours is an Hon Member, and notin any progression.
S&F
Jon
PM/PZ 441 UGLE E&PP 112 A&AR
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Sentience
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Posted 19/12/2011 17:24:03
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Chris,
I believe you need to be less restrictive with your poll options. Whilst I wouldn't advocate an inexperienced Brother performing the role of Tyler (or any role if it comes to that), I don't see a problem with a MM of a couple of years standing performing the role as a means to get them on the ladder. The poll options literally give the choice of a PM or a new initiate after Steward. With some lodges that can be as quick as three months or so. Sentience.
If I knew then what I know now, I wouldn't have got to now if I'd done it then?
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PaulH
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Posted 19/12/2011 18:08:23
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We rent ours :)
MM Joseph Lancaster 3439
MMM Northampton Castle 1346
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Richard George
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Posted 28/12/2011 10:12:36
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Sentience (19/12/2011) Chris,
I believe you need to be less restrictive with your poll options. Whilst I wouldn't advocate an inexperienced Brother performing the role of Tyler (or any role if it comes to that), I don't see a problem with a MM of a couple of years standing performing the role as a means to get them on the ladder. The poll options literally give the choice of a PM or a new initiate after Steward. With some lodges that can be as quick as three months or so.
Agreed; our Tyler is 'only' a Master Mason - but one of longer service than I've been in Masonry .. and he's done every office except Warden & Master - including Provincial Tyler. The only reason he never went through the chair was he was also at the time of succession (to JW), elected as President of the Federation of Master Builders ... and was so involved that Masonry had to take a back seat. He is now elderly and in such poor health that, regrettably, he'll never take the chair.
Richard
Craft (PProvGReg, ProvAGSec,PM 6179,9511) HRA (PProvAGSoj,PZ 441,1280, SE 441) RC (30th, PS 1076,1126) Mark/RAM (PProvGSD PM/PC 334) KT (PProvStB VB, PP 434) KTP (HP 74) OSM (unattached)
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London Mason
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Posted 28/12/2011 11:48:08
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PaulH (19/12/2011) We rent ours :)
Same here - and not cheap either ! !
                                                                                                                                                                                   
PM - L3862 PZ - C3862 DC - L3862 ADC - L9812 VO - MetGL ASE - C3862
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Mike Martin
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Posted 28/12/2011 12:06:13
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Apprentice
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Having had a think about it, I too agree that there is no need for it to be a role restricted to Past Masters.
There is nothing in the job that couldn't or shouldn't be carried out by a Master Mason, so as long as he is given all the necessary information there should be no real problem.
I would add to that there there is no need for it to become a "progressive" Office, as it may even be a good outlet for those Lodge members who wish to be active in the Lodge but who do not feel confident in doing all the "floor work"
MikeMersey Lodge No. 5434 WebsiteThe Freemasons'''' Grand Charity WebsiteSee my BALLS here
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tyler
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Posted 28/12/2011 12:33:07
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ChrisH
Being myself a Tyler, a Tyler is an important role. Its not to everyones cup of tea, or glass of wine. And not every lodge appreciates them or what they do.
I have witnessed many past masters from within the lodge 'perform' the role and with the greatest of respect they haven't a clue and are more likely to lose a candidate then keep them - mind you there are a few 'professional' tylers who can easily do that I am sad to say.
I and many of my tyler colleagues have been asked on many occasions to tyle a lodge after a period of having a brother from within do a poor job or no job at all. Some brethren think its beneath them to do the job. Believe me my Brothers they still exist!
I really do not think brethren within a lodge actually know what a tylers duties are or how much extra time that put in to getting the lodge set up. Most Tylers arrive a good hour before a meeting to make sure the lodge is set out right (it may not be to your working - but that is upto the DC to check that it is). Put out collars check tracing boards are correct way round, put the various 'tools' out etc etc - and then put it all away when the brethren are happily at the bar supping their ale. And if Janitoring at a place where there is no porters or room set aside for Chapter or Mark/Mariner etc then the setting up taking down and putting away can take more than an hour - a Chapter can take 2 hours to set up. Rose Criox even longer.
Also remember that a Lodge and its members are fulfilling their basic obligation in helping a brother often less fortunate than they - and I do not mean just finacially, but also socially in the form of company, friendship and food, for often a Tyler is unemployed, retired, widower, living off state pension etc etc. For some it gives them a reason to get up in the mornings to wash and shave to have clean clothes (yes I know there are a few who don't - but the majority do. And some are cantankerous and some are rude. And if your are wondering at least in my Province a Brother who wants to become a Tyler first has to be mentored by a trusted Tyler at their own expense for at least 3 or 4 meetings in each order and if 'we' feel they are not suitable, and some are not, then they either spend more time with us or are not recommended).
Of course if your lodge is fortunate to own the masonic hall and you are the only one meeting there and things can be left out then perhaps have a past master do the job, but will he and will he like being 'outside' forgotten and often cold and will he even as a past master actually perform his duties well with a candidate. A 'professional' Tyler can bring years of experince not only from 'your' lodge but from the many they often tyle for with many interesting variations on ritual.
Can I leave you with this poem by Ralph Andrews written in 2011 - its called 'Tylers Plea to the Treasurer' - and sums up what 'we' have to put up with sometimes.
The Treasurers who pay the Tylers fee,
Notably would prefer the service for free,
But normally the Tyler has fallen on times that are hard,
And the donation of charity is given with Brotherly love, to a bard.
But sometimes the time lapses over a number of years
With no increase, brings the Tyler nearly to tears,
After four or five years, the treasurer thinks he has done well,
In keeping costs down, no bad news to tell.
The Tyler, in desperation, then has to ask for a rise,
This implication to the Treasurer gives looks of grotesque surprise,
Some are unable to understand the affront of his request,
Then think about finding another Tyler is best.
But I would like to remind the Treasurer of the Lodges hand vote,
When the Members decide who they wish to promote.
There is more to the work of a Tyler, than meets the eye,
For we are bound by the fellowship of the mystic tie.
Somehow the cost of attending a Lodge meeting is not apparent,
or the early start and the late return home from the event.
So Brother Treasurer, when increases are made to a Brothers fee,
Please remember the Tyler, for he is the future to see.
Happy new year
Tyler
'
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Mike Martin
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Posted 28/12/2011 15:12:31
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RIGHT!
Aside from the format problems with the poem, I need to point out that this is not a topic generally about Tylers and/or their pay but is a specific poll about whether Tylers when used as an Office of the Lodge should be restricted solely to PMs or as a progressive Office.
If people want to discuss payment of Tylers that is (as required by Rule 8 of this Forum) a new topic and not to be used to derail the existing poll/topic.
MikeMersey Lodge No. 5434 WebsiteThe Freemasons'''' Grand Charity WebsiteSee my BALLS here
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Two Ton Ted
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Posted 30/12/2011 08:54:25
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ChrisH1 (19/12/2011) Following on the discussion about being a Tyler within your own Lodge, I wonder how many feel this is a job that should be reserved for after your year in the chair or before it?
In recent years in my lodge this post has been by occupied by the outgoing IPM who has just left his place by the side of the outgoing WM and when he has done his year as Tyler, he comes back in and does a year as ADC!
Not having the benefit of a permanent Tyler, I have always felt that in my lodge it should be a job for the outgoing IPM. It gives him a clean break from his time as WM and then IPM, (where he is on standby to take control of any of the ceremonies if the WM is unable to attend, so has to stay tip-top ritual wise etc). So a year as Tyler can be good for him. It was for me because my successor had a stroke after his first ceremony and I ended up doing it for two years and I was glad to become Tyler.
If my lodge had a vote on it, I would vote to keep that job for the recently departed IPM (not literal!) as I think by taking out a couple of years of progressive offices, it gives the junior officers in the progression a slightly shorter time (by two years) of getting installed as WM.
On the other hand, if it WAS in the progression, it gives the outgoing IPM a chance to look at other jobs that may have become available and more suited to his experience, such as Secretary, DC or Treasurer. It is in a lot of ways a chicken and eggs scenario with good reasons for or against.
Ted
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