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Can't identify some items.

Posted By RoughAshlar 14/03/2010 06:48:06
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RoughAshlar
 Posted 14/03/2010 06:48:06
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Hello!

I wonder if you could help me identify some symbols on some items.


[1] Crucifix belonging to my great-great grandfather.

At the foot of the crucifix from his coffin, there is an equilateral triangle, with the apex pointing up with a skull and crossbones on the triangle. The skull is in the upper third and the crossbones are approximately central.

There is also a thirteen pointed blazing star at the union of the vertical and the cross-bar of the crucifix above the head of the crucified Christ. Within the blazing star there is a circular ornamentation of two interwoven sinusoidal circles.

Are these Masonic symbols?



[2] Bracelet.

* It consists of seven segments, all identical.
* Each segment has what appears to be a KT Malta cross at the top,
* A skull below, a pair of perforations of roughly 1:1.618 proportions at the 2 o'clock and 10 o'clock positions each being tilted towards the outer edge of the segment at rough 30 degrees from the vertical
* Two arcs each consisting of four 'dots' at the five o'clock and seven o'clock positions.

Any hints about its origin or meaning?



Hope to maybe learn more about my past. Apologies for asking, but all of my ancestors are dead, so no one is around to answer questions. I thought some of you wise chaps may know.


Cheers - RoughAshlar.



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Mike Martin
 Posted 14/03/2010 11:24:06
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RoughAshlar (14/03/2010)
[1] Crucifix belonging to my great-great grandfather.

At the foot of the crucifix from his coffin, there is an equilateral triangle, with the apex pointing up with a skull and crossbones on the triangle. The skull is in the upper third and the crossbones are approximately central.

There is also a thirteen pointed blazing star at the union of the vertical and the cross-bar of the crucifix above the head of the crucified Christ. Within the blazing star there is a circular ornamentation of two interwoven sinusoidal circles.

Are these Masonic symbols?

[2] Bracelet.

* It consists of seven segments, all identical.
* Each segment has what appears to be a KT Malta cross at the top,
* A skull below, a pair of perforations of roughly 1:1.618 proportions at the 2 o'clock and 10 o'clock positions each being tilted towards the outer edge of the segment at rough 30 degrees from the vertical
* Two arcs each consisting of four 'dots' at the five o'clock and seven o'clock positions.

Any hints about its origin or meaning?

It would be helpful to see pictures of the items to really have any clues as the written word can rarely convey what the eye should be seeing.

Without wanting to seem like a party-pooper, I would urge you not to approach this from the view point that there is any Masonic influence on the pieces as you haven't mentioned any symbols that are uniquely Masonic yet.

The equilateral triangle is basically an old Christian symbol that represents the Christian Trinity (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) as 3 equal parts of the Divine. Freemasonry has borrowed it and applies it in a similar fashion.

Skull and bones (crossed or not) are the age old memento mori (emblem of mortality) a reminder that all of us die. Freemasonry uses them in the same way. Much of its history it has been used as a warning of the likelihood of death from a certain action (drinking poison for example).

A 13 point star can mean almost anything linked to 13, however a glory tends to represent God the Creator.

Cross Patees are not particularly Masonic but they are used in the chivalric degrees but that's because they were used by the original Orders themselves.

Mike
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lauderdale
 Posted 14/03/2010 12:08:01
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Sounds rather KT to me and I do have a wooden Pectoral Crucifix of a somewhat similar type to that which you describe. Give the age of the item you mention it could well have Rose Croix (18th Degree A&ASR) connections as in former time the Rose Croix  was the "Ne Plus Ultra" of the Knights-Templar.

Again of this could be digitally photographed or scanned this would be helpful.

cambridgemason
 Posted 17/03/2010 20:07:05
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 This too sounds like KT as well, except on the braclet it could be the Order of Malta, a seperate Fraternal organization that existed.  They also had a womens relief corp. called the Dames of Malta.

Curator, Cambridge Masonic Temple

Cambridge, MA., USA

RoughAshlar
 Posted 31/03/2010 10:15:49
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Apologies for the slow reply, but I've had some kind of virus lay me low the past couple of weeks. Drawing breath was entertaining enough, but life as it is persists.

Here are a couple of pics, which I should have posted with the questions in the first place. Apologies for the filesize and for the server speed but it is hosted on my business server and the images will be pulled down or relocated some time in the future.


The areas to look at are:

[1] The bracelet. Looks sufficiently masculine and not feminine... however, proper Brit men in those days usually thought bracelets were for... someone else, usually a touch more continental, as I understand it. ;)



[2] The crucifix. As his wife was an Irish Catholic, it would explain the particular form of the body, but the star at the union of the beams and the triangle and more at the foot of the body make me ask more questions about the symbols.



Let me know what you gentlemen think.

Cheers - RoughAshlar.


PS Apologies for the quality of the pics and for the condition of the crucifix. It was only recovered a few years ago and had not been stored well by the person who kept it.



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lauderdale
 Posted 31/03/2010 11:15:24
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The crucifix is identical to the one I have and my last mother also had one like this. It is somewhere  in my father's house. I may be wrong but I think that these were quite commonly worn by Roman Catholic and High Anglican Nuns at one time.
RoughAshlar
 Posted 31/03/2010 13:18:24
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Thank you, Lauderdale.


I wouldn't doubt it to be High Anglican, but given that he was an officer of British Army, of the the British Raj (and one other unpleasant foreign rebellious condition as far as I know) and a proper English Johnny complete with speech defect and a cane, I seriously doubt that he was a Nun. :)

That, and it's approximately 250 mm tall...

Even the most visible nuns I've met didn't wield a crucifix that might double as a croquet mallet, at a stretch. :)


However, I've not spotted a High Anglican crucifix or other symbol employing the triangle, skull and bones. Could you illuminate me about that?


Cheers - RoughAshlar.


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lauderdale
 Posted 31/03/2010 22:32:50
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The version I have and my late mother possessed is much smaller than that. Mine is a Pectoral Cross whereas if yours is that size it would be for wall mounting.

The symbols you mention do indeed have a tie-in with Rose Croix and KTs to be sure although I do not think that this particular type of crucifix was connected to them.


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