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Trismegistos
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Posted 06/03/2010 22:52:46
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An interesting example of the thorny questions concerning "regularity" is the state of Freemasonry in Sweden. There are a number of Masonic organizations in my country, the main ones of which are these:
1) The Swedish Order of Freemasons
The largest organization - works the rather special Swedish Rite, which demands its members be explicitly Christian, not just believers in a Supreme Being. This is in violation of the ordinary Masonic tradition of course, but the SwOF is still the organization officially recognized by UGLE.
2) Le Droit Humain (only one lodge in Sweden)
... which does, like all LDH lodges, initiate both men and women but is "regular" as regards religion.
3) The Swedish Masonic Camp
... which is an Anglo-Saxon style Masonic organization working Craft, Mark, HRA etc. with standard, traditional and non-confessional rules but without any official recognition from UGLE or other mainstream GL:s.
... just an example of how convoluted these issues easily become, depending on which part of "regularity" is considered the most important ;-)
/ Bro. Ola
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3rd degree, International Order of Co-Freemasonry Le Droit Humain - Scandinavian Federation
Lodge Odin, Nr. 743
My blog, "Dead Tongues Whispering"
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lauderdale
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Posted 07/03/2010 00:27:04
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Plenty of variety there then for anyone who wishes to become a Freemason.
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Alan Campbell
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Posted 07/03/2010 09:27:49
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Ola, are you trying to say that UGLE and amity lodges should be recognising the 3rd type of masonry that you mentioned and not the first? Or is it just to tell us that you have 3 types of masonry in Sweden.
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bowman
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Posted 07/03/2010 10:57:12
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1) The Swedish Order of Freemasons
The largest organization - works the rather special Swedish Rite, which demands its members be explicitly Christian, not just believers in a Supreme Being. This is in violation of the ordinary Masonic tradition of course, but the SwOF is still the organization officially recognized by UGLE.
Are you sure about this? I was under the impression that you don't need to be a Christian to join the St. John lodges (1-3 degree)?
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Bro. Bowman
SW, St. Stephens No.7, Budapest (Hungary)
Cockfosters Chapter No.1, Budapest (Hungary)
Mark Masters Lodge New Quarries No.1903, Vienna (Austria)
Steward, RAM New Shores No.1903 (Austria)
Dialogus lodge No.1, Ljubljana (Slovenia)
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Trismegistos
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Posted 07/03/2010 13:24:53
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Alan:
No, not at all saying that UGLE should switch its recognition (I am neither a member of the SwOF nor the Camp and have no special "allegiance" to either). I was just musing on the difference of interpretation as to what "regularity" means.
Bowman:
As I understand it from acquaintances in the SwOF (and their Swedish website for that matter) you can visit the St John's lodges as a member of a "foreign" GL without being Christian, but you have to be Christian to actually join the Order - and that goes from the beginning up.
/ Bro. Ola
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3rd degree, International Order of Co-Freemasonry Le Droit Humain - Scandinavian Federation
Lodge Odin, Nr. 743
My blog, "Dead Tongues Whispering"
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bowman
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Posted 07/03/2010 19:02:18
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I sit corrected, you are indeed right!
Taken from: http://www.frimurarorden.se/eng/index.html
Can Brethren from foreign Grand Lodges, regardless of religious belief, visit a Lodge in Sweden?
The Swedish Rite practiced in Sweden and the Swedish speaking parts of Finland is based on Christian faith. The other Nordic countries; Denmark, Norway and Iceland are also practicing The Swedish Rite
According to the General Law of Grand Lodge of Sweden, 16.1, admission to the Order can only be granted to men of Christian faith. His proposer and seconder will ensure this be forehand. Whether he is Lutheran or Catholic, it is solely a question for his own conscience.
The reason behind this requirement is that the Swedish Rite is an integrated system. A Mason Brother belongs to the Grand Lodge from the first Degree to the highest - passing through the Craft Lodge Degrees (I-III), the St. Andrew’s Lodge Degrees (IV-VI) into the Priory Degrees (VII-X). The later (called Chapter in the Swedish Rite) is, like most Priories in the Masonic world, based on Christian legends and symbols. There is no requirement for a candidate to the Grand Lodge of Sweden that he must formally be a member of the Swedish Church.
Brethren from foreign Grand Lodges, recognized by the Grand Lodge of Sweden can, regardless of religious belief, visit a Swedish Lodge working the Degrees I - III and IV - VI. A foreign Brother can only be member, for instance in the case of affiliation, if he is of Christian faith.
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Bro. Bowman
SW, St. Stephens No.7, Budapest (Hungary)
Cockfosters Chapter No.1, Budapest (Hungary)
Mark Masters Lodge New Quarries No.1903, Vienna (Austria)
Steward, RAM New Shores No.1903 (Austria)
Dialogus lodge No.1, Ljubljana (Slovenia)
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Mike Martin
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Posted 08/03/2010 00:47:11
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Apprentice
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Trismegistos (06/03/2010)
An interesting example of the thorny questions concerning "regularity" is the state of Freemasonry in Sweden. There are a number of Masonic organizations in my country, the main ones of which are these:
1) The Swedish Order of Freemasons
The largest organization - works the rather special Swedish Rite, which demands its members be explicitly Christian, not just believers in a Supreme Being. This is in violation of the ordinary Masonic tradition of course, but the SwOF is still the organization officially recognized by UGLE.I'm not quite following why you think this breaks the rules of "Recognition" OR "Regularity?? The UGLE's criteria for recognition do not state that a Grand Lodge must allow people of any religion to join. For your information I have posted the actual criteria below, you will notice that LDH actually fails on more than one requirement. BASIC PRINCIPLES FOR GRAND LODGE RECOGNITION Accepted by the Grand Lodge , September 4, 1929The M.W. The Grand Master having expressed a desire that the Board would draw up a statement of the Basic Principles on which this Grand Lodge could be invited to recognize any Grand Lodge applying for recognition by the English Jurisdiction, the Board of General Purposes has gladly complied. The result, as follows, has been approved by the Grand Master and it will form the basis of a questionnaire to be forwarded in future to each Jurisdiction requesting English recognition. The Board desires that not only such bodies but the Brethren generally throughout the Grand Master’s Jurisdiction shall be fully informed as to those Basic Principles of Freemasonry for which the Grand Lodge of England has stood throughout its history 1. Regularity of origin; i.e. each Grand Lodge shall have been established lawfully by a duly recognized Grand Lodge or by three or more regularly constituted Lodges. 2. That a belief in the G.A.O.T.U. and His revealed will shall be an essential qualification for membership. 3. That all Initiates shall take their Obligation on or in full view of the open Volume of the Sacred Law, by which is meant the revelation from above which is binding on the conscience of the particular individual who is being initiated. 4. That the membership of the Grand Lodge and individual Lodges shall be composed exclusively of men; and that each Grand Lodge shall have no Masonic intercourse of any kind with mixed Lodges or bodies which admit women to membership. 5. That the Grand Lodge shall have sovereign jurisdiction over the Lodges under its control; i.e. that it shall be a responsible, independent, self-governing organization, with sole and undisputed authority over the Craft or Symbolic Degrees (Entered Apprentice, Fellow Craft, and Master Mason) within its Jurisdiction; and shall not in any way be subject to, or divide such authority with, a Supreme Council or other Power claiming any control or supervision over those degrees. 6. That the three Great Lights of Freemasonry (namely, the Volume of the Sacred Law, the Square, and the Compasses) shall always be exhibited when the Grand Lodge or its subordinate Lodges are at work, the chief of these being the Volume of the Sacred Law. 7. That the discussion of religion and politics within the Lodge shall be strictly prohibited. 8. That the principles of the Antient Landmarks, customs, and usages of the Craft shall be strictly observed.
MikeMersey Lodge No. 5434 WebsiteThe Freemasons'''' Grand Charity WebsiteSee my BALLS here
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lauderdale
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Posted 08/03/2010 11:49:24
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Not wishing to be adversarial about this but I can only see one of these grounds on which LDH would "Fail" as you put it, that would be Clause 4 as we of course have Brethren of both genders, we are not Men Only. As to the one about Political or Religious discussion I have not as yet heard of Party Politics nor Organised Religion being discussed in our Temples during a Tyled Meeting. I for example could not present a POA (paper) in a Meeting where I said "As a High Anglican Conservative.....".Our Lodges are under the Sovereign Jursdiction of our elected Grand Master in the Zenith of Paris and as regards the Antient Landlarks, nobody seems to be able to agree to what these are and some Grand Lodge recognised by UGLE do not use them at all. It is of course academic as most LDH members do not care if they are "recognised" by UGLE although LDH does recognise it.
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Mike Martin
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Posted 08/03/2010 12:09:27
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Hi Steve, we touched on these a couple of years ago when we were talking about what would happen in a theoretical world where the UGLE decided to ignore the gender requirement and recognised other Grand Lodges with the remainder of the criteria.LDH would still be out as LDH Federations are actually governed by a Supreme Council in Paris which means that an LDH Federation can not meet criteria 5. If the UGLE was to consider LDH as a whole it would then further fall down on 2 and 3 as well, as they are not a universal requirement within LDH as a whole. You may remember that I mentioned that under such circumstances, that I think the UGLE would only be able to recognise the Grand Lodge for Men & Women. To recognise LDH it would have to change several of its criteria.
MikeMersey Lodge No. 5434 WebsiteThe Freemasons'''' Grand Charity WebsiteSee my BALLS here
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lauderdale
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Posted 08/03/2010 12:42:32
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.."To recognise LDH it would have to change several of its criteria." Which I would very much doubt indeed that it would ever wish to do, so the matter falls as they say in Court. Thanks for the clarification. I have only seen their website and have never attended any of their meetings but from what I could derive from it it would appear that the Grand Lodge for Men and Women could be considered as "UGLE with women members" from their Regalia, Structure etc as shown on the website. Still as they say "Variety is the spice of life"
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