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Amity

Posted By Sparker 28/01/2010 17:30:02
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Sparker
 Posted 28/01/2010 17:30:02
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Just suppose.... UGLE became to be in amity with LDH. Would UGLE Masons be welcomed?.. and by that I mean if it were possible to be a member of both....and UGLE Masons were desirous.... would LDH welcome them with open arms?

And and and...if an UGLE Mason had a sex change..now being female in the eyes of the law... would he be expelled from UGLE?.. would he be accepted by LDH then?

Tony.


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lauderdale
 Posted 28/01/2010 17:47:37
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This is one of those Xmas Cracker questions. I will go to my grave, I am 56, and UGLE will not accept Women as members nor even as visitors in the way the GOdF does. It does not Initiate Women itself but will accept them as vistors at its Meetings. Been there, done that and got kissed by a male member of LDH!

Now as far as LDH is concerned, we consider the Degrees confered by UGLE as valid so an UGLE member such as myself who left that Grand Lodge would be able to become a member of LDH, subject to Ballot in Lodge, with all their Degrees accepted as valid. The same is NOT the case in UGLE. I  know of former members of LDH who had to start over as an EA and had to do all the Degrees again.

As to someone who had Gender Re-assignment Surgery (a sex change) and become a woman when they were born a man. I assume that UGLE would invite them to resign. I can see no problem about them joining LDH as a Female Brother if they were otherwise suitable. We have Male, Female, Hetero and Homosexual  members, it simply isn't an issue for us.

Of course if in Disneyland (as it disnae happen), UGLE Recognised LDH (we already Recognise UGLE- have a look at our website), and both Masonic Bodies were in Amity then of course there would be visitation between the two and just as GL of Scotland, GL of Ireland and American Masons etc can be members both of UGLE and their own Constitution, then I assume that would be the case between LDH and UGLE if any Brother wished to be in both. If not then there would hardly be Amity would there.

Of course, as I said at the beginnning, this is a facetious question and I cannot see any reason for asking it in the first place.

lauderdale
 Posted 28/01/2010 18:10:56
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Ex member of what? I am fully paid up member of LDH in good standing. I assume that Sparker is likewise in good standing in UGLE? As a former member of UGLE in my post I have stated that any Recognition by and Treaty of Amity from UGLE to LDH is highly unlikely to occur in my lifetime. Were such an event to happen then it would be for those Independent Grand Lodges such as Scotland, Ireland and in the USA to decide if they too "Recognised" the situation and allowed intervistation and even duel membership. Likewise it would be for UGLE to square such a move with those GLs although all are Independent of each other, and could do their own thing, as an example GL of Scotland is quite at ease with its members being involved with the OES, UGLE is not, yet both are in Amity with each other. 

Again I feel that either this thread is a joke, or there is an ulterior motive in posing the question. I have no problem giving an honest answer in accordance with my knowledge and abilities to any question asked of me about Freemasonry as I know and have experienced it for 21 years now but I really do not do wind-ups.

Tom Cherup
 Posted 28/01/2010 18:32:20
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johndee (28/01/2010)
Sparker (28/01/2010)
Just suppose.... UGLE became to be in amity with LDH. Would UGLE Masons be welcomed?.. and by that I mean if it were possible to be a member of both....and UGLE Masons were desirous.... would LDH welcome them with open arms?

And and and...if an UGLE Mason had a sex change..now being female in the eyes of the law... would he be expelled from UGLE?.. would he be accepted by LDH then?

Tony.


Why the focus on only UGLE? What about the other two sister Constitutions of Ireland and Scotland being mentioned as well. These 3 GLs act in unity on most matters concerning the Craft. Also what about GLs in North America, who is to say they would recognize any such hypothetical amity. It is not as simple as some ex-members want to portray here.


Most GL here in the stated would do the same thing. He would loose his membership. If a member were to visit LDH here he would loose his membership. A few year back one GL recognized GL did recognized LDH or Co-Masonry. Through the years that they did recognized co-Masonry a letter went out to other GLs where they all dropped recognized that Jurisdiction, also informing their members that if they were to visit a lodge under that jurisdiction the member could loose his membership.


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Pilgrim
 Posted 28/01/2010 18:51:42
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Sparker (28/01/2010)
and by that I mean if it were possible to be a member of both....

If it were then I would.:D

Mike Martin
 Posted 28/01/2010 23:06:38
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There is no reason to consider this question to have an ulterior motive I would guess that sparker is just wondering.

It does happen.

 Mike
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dp
 Posted 29/01/2010 11:08:25
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[quote]Sparker (28/01/2010)
And and and...if an UGLE Mason had a sex change..now being female in the eyes of the law... would he be expelled from UGLE?.. would he be accepted by LDH then?quote]

Mmmm... Reading this and looking at the picture of you....

Is there something your not telling us? :hehe:

Janus
 Posted 29/01/2010 11:24:07
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Lauderdale (28/01/2010)
This is one of those Xmas Cracker questions. I will go to my grave, I am 56, and UGLE will not accept Women as members nor even as visitors in the way the GOdF does. It does not Initiate Women itself but will accept them as vistors at its Meetings.


As far as the GOdF goes there is no problem for a lodge to accept female visitors but it has to be said that it is still up to each individual lodge within the GOdF to do so or not. In the same way it is up to each individual lodge to evoke TGAOTU and have the bible present. A lot of lodges within the GOdF DOES evoke TGAOTU AND have the bible present. Its the choice of each lodge to do so or not. Same with female visitors, as far as I know.


Janus

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 Posted 29/01/2010 11:40:51
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The sex change (gender realignment) issue intrigues me. Our Obligation (GLoS Lodge) requires each candidate to solemnly promise that they will never be at the Initiation of, "...a woman under any pretext whatever."

But!

Having been Entered as a man I am not convinced that there would then be an automatic requirement for any individual to resign should they become a woman later in life.

In such an event the, "What happens next?" question would surely be a fascinating test of the Masonic character of all those involved.

lauderdale
 Posted 29/01/2010 12:48:37
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My question would be would a Woman Only GL such as OWF or HFAF accept them as a woman. Legally in the UK they would be so, emotionally they certainly would be, externally they would physically be a woman although they could not conceive. I do wonder if this issue will ever arise.

Personally, and if they were otherwise suitable I would have no problem Proposing such a person for an LDH Lodge.


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