Good or Bad TV Coverage

Bro David, do not admonish yourself in any way, the whole reason for a Masonic Forum is to be able freely to discuss those matters we either feel diffident about raising at for example LOI or even in the bar after a Meeting for fear of feeling silly or being told, "That's not for you to ask" or even that the Brother you speak to simply does not know or even does not care about that aspect of The Craft. A Forum lets anyone, from the newest EA to a Grand Master were they to post here, ask questions or pose a topic for discussion, or pass their opinion on some Masonic matter. I feel that such Fora compensate for the lack of discussion or the facility thereof in many Lodges and are a great way to enhance one's Masonic Knowledge, I have learned a great deal about Freemasonry and have even made Masonic Friendships thereby. I feel that the Moderators here have got the level of intervention about right although I do feel that occasionally they are a wee bit strong on threads which wander a bit off topic, as this is what happens in any conversation. Still, TFM Forum has stood the test of time so they must be doing it right!

Having met RW Bro Hooton on many occasions I have the advantage in knowing him to be, at least in my estimation, a "Good Mason". I feel confident that he would not sanction anything which was harmful to The Craft.

Weighing it all up I feel that far more good than harm will accrue to Freemasonry from a film such as this. Indeed I have had people I work with who saw it on our local TV speak favourably to me about it, I do not hide that I am a Freemason from my co-workers. In any event, as is often remarked, the "secrets" of Freemasonry have been available since 1952 and I frankly have forgotten how to give anything but a Masonic handshake which everyone receives from me, as this is one way I can ascertain if the person I am meeting is "On the Square" or not, and in my case as a Co-Mason that includes women as well as men.

As others here have remarked the true Secrets of Freemasonry are not in handshakes, movements of the hands and arms, or in words in an ancient tongue but are known only to the Brother who experiences them and are written not on the paper of a Ritual Book but in the Heart.

Author	Message
*Tom Cherup*	Posted 15/01/2009 23:58:31
Forum Moderator Group: Moderator Last Active: 11 hours ago Posts: 1,483, Visits: 4,737 1,828	James you need a tour of that big temple/hall here in detroit. You see or what you will fine are that the gargoyles on the building ( they don't work) are giving the signs of each degree. You would have to know where to look to find them. Tom Cherup 32° Olive Branch Lodge #542 Dearborn, Michigan Scottish Rite - Valley of Detroit Detroit Masonic Temple - It''s bigger than yours!
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Mike Martin	Posted 16/01/2009 00:48:16
Excellent Master Group: Administrator Last Active: 5 minutes ago Posts: 2,318, Visits: 11,808 2,714	wolfy (15/01/2009) sorry mike i must have missed this part, I have the above quoted part of the obligation in each of the degrees, so that i will always H, C, and never R any or either of..blah blah blah in each of the degrees, not just that of MM so that has broken the ob for grip. as to the mysteries, well thats never dictated but there wasnt much ritual there to consider the mysteries lost in my mind. James, I wasn't trying to negate the grip i've already said that I would rather not have seen that. It was just Alan said to look at it ritualistically so I was only quoting the relevant part of Mm. You're right it is very similar in all 3 craft degrees (in Emulation) but I didn't see the point in sticking them all in:D. That's why I'm sort of hoping the peole who are saying the whole thing is bad will actually state whether their Obligation does actually get more specific than mine. That would explain it to me, I'm just interested. Mike Mersey Lodge No. 5434 Website The Freemasons'''' Grand Charity Website See my BALLS here
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Alan Campbell	Posted 16/01/2009 20:45:29
Past Master Group: Forum Member Last Active: 04/02/2012 12:02:46 Posts: 1,247, Visits: 2,228 1,391	Will (15/01/2009) Each to his own and everyone's opinion is equally valid. But I do think that saying such things as "unworthy to be called Masons" is more than unnecessary. The whole programme was made with the co-operation, participation and permission of the PGM of Berkshire. He, in turn, undoubtedly cleared every aspect of participation with Grand Lodge. As with all such matters, opinions can differ but they should not become devisive and the use of expressions such as I have already re-quoted helps nobody. Will, this is solely from a ritualistic point of view, My obligation stated that, "so that the secrets may be revelaed through my unworthiness". These brothers have divulged the secrets they are therefore unworthy or have i missed the meaning of those words and misinterpreted my oath de fideli. My oath was taken on a Bible, not something that i took lightly and something that i gave a great deal of thought too before i did it. I don't want the ritual or freemasonry watered down to make it more PC, i am happy with freemasonry the mystery, if you want to know more come along and join. I did, and so did thousands of others. Yes tell them we are a respectable society which has secret means of recognition, explain that we try to make good people better, explain that we give to charity, eplain the we are a non denominational group, explain what you want but not the secrets that oath was to my fellow brothers and god and i don't think that any Grand lodge or Provincial grand lodge has the right to decide that it is now okay to reveal secrets because they want people to think better of them. So in conclusion according to the oath i took and i'm sure its not that different from UGLE, i will call these brothers unworthy to be masons because they broke their oath and divulged(even if only a small part) part of the secrets of freemasonry.
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bob c	Posted 16/01/2009 21:36:15
Master Group: Forum Member Last Active: Yesterday @ 16:35:29 Posts: 518, Visits: 1,564 798	I think the secrets of Freemasonry may mean different things to different people. As most say it is the signs and tokens and words, but to others it may mean the whole of the lodge workings. To me, putting aside the signs, tokens, and words as the secrets, the true meaning of the secrets I believe is that which is felt by each and everyone of us who have taken that step to join. These particular secrets can never be revealed as I believe you need to participate to experience them. I still find it hard to explain my experience of initiation to others when asked. Another part of the secrets, imo, is the history that is kept within the old minute books and records of the various lodges. regards bob
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lauderdale	Posted 16/01/2009 21:37:16
Excellent Master Group: Forum Member Last Active: 10/07/2011 06:43:06 Posts: 2,136, Visits: 4,278 2,476	One of the Brethren in the film is the UGLE PGM for their Province of Berkshire, R W Bro Michael Hooton. I have met him on many occasions and he is one of the better PGMs to say the least and that coming from someone who does not usually have a lot of time for PGMs and that structure of Masonic Governance. He would I am sure have thought carefully about the film and what was contained therein and have weighed it up in the interests of Freemasonry. I would not presume to judge his worthiness to be a Mason. I do not feel I have that right. I would say that I found him to be an honourable man.
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Will	Posted 17/01/2009 00:12:42
Apprentice Group: Forum Member Last Active: 28/05/2010 12:52:36 Posts: 53, Visits: 91 83	So in conclusion according to the oath i took and i'm sure its not that different from UGLE, i will call these brothers unworthy to be masons because they broke their oath and divulged(even if only a small part) part of the secrets of freemasonry. Not a topic that I intend to revisit again. Bro. Alan, you have your opinion and I have mine, for them to differ is not a problem. I merely stated that using such strong terms is of no assistance to anyone. P.M. & A.D.C. of Prince of Wales Lodge No. 1705 I.G. - Hampshire & Isle of Wight Provincial Grand Stewards Lodge No. 9263 Third Principal - Alverstoke R.A. Chapter No. 1705
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David	Posted 17/01/2009 00:58:27
Fellow Group: Forum Member Last Active: 02/01/2012 23:59:50 Posts: 123, Visits: 1,490 258	Lauderdale (16/01/2009) One of the Brethren in the film is the UGLE PGM for their Province of Berkshire, R W Bro Michael Hooton. I have met him on many occasions and he is one of the better PGMs to say the least and that coming from someone who does not usually have a lot of time for PGMs and that structure of Masonic Governance. He would I am sure have thought carefully about the film and what was contained therein and have weighed it up in the interests of Freemasonry. I would not presume to judge his worthiness to be a Mason. I do not feel I have that right. I would say that I found him to be an honourable man. Brother as you know I fully respect your experience and judgement. I am sure that in particular your statement "he thought carefully about the film and what was contained therein and have weighed it up in the interests of Freemasonry." is correct. He may of course, notwithstanding his eminence and years of experience, have made an error of judgement - who hasn't. Furthermore I doubt he saw or had any control over the content of the final edit of the clips as transmitted. As a recent initiate I would not have the impertinence to criticise or even really consider anyones worthiness to be a mason (or anyone who chooses to criticise for that matter) BUT I can understand why others choose to do that. Forums such as this are democratic and seem to have the minimum of "interference" by moderators. We are all absolutely entitled to our views. It is regrettable that often the baby is thrown out with the bathwater in the sense in this case any criticsm of these clips, is seen in some quarters as an attack on openness in general. I have probably said too much - the last thing I want to do, as a new member of the fraternity, is to appear to be an unthinking, unforgiving zealot. S & F David
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*Tom Cherup*	Posted 17/01/2009 03:36:26
Forum Moderator Group: Moderator Last Active: 11 hours ago Posts: 1,483, Visits: 4,737 1,828	wolfy (15/01/2009) not just that of MM so that has broken the ob for grip. as to the mysteries, well thats never dictated but there wasnt much ritual there to consider the mysteries lost in my mind. Jim, I too saw the grip like you and Mike. I feel it stood out becuse we as Masons are able to see what degree by the grip. But I wonder seeing it from the public's eye they having no knowledge of Masonry will see it of just a hand shake or greeting. Tom Cherup 32° Olive Branch Lodge #542 Dearborn, Michigan Scottish Rite - Valley of Detroit Detroit Masonic Temple - It''s bigger than yours!
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wolfy	Posted 17/01/2009 07:36:09
Fellow Group: Forum Member Last Active: 25/07/2011 09:46:54 Posts: 180, Visits: 376 276	Tom, Honestly I dont know, if you think about the image we have as Masons normally people instantly think about the "handshake". I would have thought it was quite obvious to anyone watching, though whether or not they thought it was a real grip or not, thats another question entirely ;) S+F James K U.G.L.E Stella Maris 7279 MMM, OSM
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lauderdale	Posted 17/01/2009 09:06:06
Excellent Master Group: Forum Member Last Active: 10/07/2011 06:43:06 Posts: 2,136, Visits: 4,278 2,476	Bro David, do not admonish yourself in any way, the whole reason for a Masonic Forum is to be able freely to discuss those matters we either feel diffident about raising at for example LOI or even in the bar after a Meeting for fear of feeling silly or being told, "That's not for you to ask" or even that the Brother you speak to simply does not know or even does not care about that aspect of The Craft. A Forum lets anyone, from the newest EA to a Grand Master were they to post here, ask questions or pose a topic for discussion, or pass their opinion on some Masonic matter. I feel that such Fora compensate for the lack of discussion or the facility thereof in many Lodges and are a great way to enhance one's Masonic Knowledge, I have learned a great deal about Freemasonry and have even made Masonic Friendships thereby. I feel that the Moderators here have got the level of intervention about right although I do feel that occasionally they are a wee bit strong on threads which wander a bit off topic, as this is what happens in any conversation. Still, TFM Forum has stood the test of time so they must be doing it right! Having met RW Bro Hooton on many occasions I have the advantage in knowing him to be, at least in my estimation, a "Good Mason". I feel confident that he would not sanction anything which was harmful to The Craft. Weighing it all up I feel that far more good than harm will accrue to Freemasonry from a film such as this. Indeed I have had people I work with who saw it on our local TV speak favourably to me about it, I do not hide that I am a Freemason from my co-workers. In any event, as is often remarked, the "secrets" of Freemasonry have been available since 1952 and I frankly have forgotten how to give anything but a Masonic handshake which everyone receives from me, as this is one way I can ascertain if the person I am meeting is "On the Square" or not, and in my case as a Co-Mason that includes women as well as men. As others here have remarked the true Secrets of Freemasonry are not in handshakes, movements of the hands and arms, or in words in an ancient tongue but are known only to the Brother who experiences them and are written not on the paper of a Ritual Book but in the Heart.
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Good or Bad TV Coverage