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Alan Campbell
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Posted 16/12/2009 21:38:46
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After reading a recent article regarding the secret societies act of 1799 which mentions freemasonry and the fact that we were allowed to continue working after dispensation from the government and local authorities, when did we become a society with secrets instead of a secret society. If it was good enough to be classed as a secret society in 1799 why did we need to change.
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Vintagemalt
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Posted 16/12/2009 23:27:35
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Alan Campbell (16/12/2009)
After reading a recent article regarding the secret societies act of 1799 which mentions freemasonry and the fact that we were allowed to continue working after dispensation from the government and local authorities, when did we become a society with secrets instead of a secret society. If it was good enough to be classed as a secret society in 1799 why did we need to change.AlanThe whole point here is that Freemasonry was NOT classed as a Secret Society in 1799. Nor has it ever been.
Stephen 
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Vintagemalt
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Posted 16/12/2009 23:35:43
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The British government - like rulers everywhere - was terrified by the threat implicit in the French Revolution: the overturning of social order, the encouragement to radical thought and societies. It responded by introducing a bill banning "every society, the members whereof shall... be required or admitted to take any oath of engagement". As it stood, this bill would have outlawed Freemasonry, despite the organisation's forbidding of political discussion during meetings, its sober reputation and its distinguished membership. The two Grand Lodges sent a delegation to the prime minister, William Pitt, and Freemasonry was exempted from the 1799 Unlawful Societies Act, on the condition that each lodge provided an annual return of its members to the local clerk of the peace - a requirement which remained on the statute books until 1967. Far from being a den of sedition and treason, Freemasonry was highly visible during this period, processing and laying foundation stones and engaging in various other civil activities, and hiring out Freemasons' Hall for public events such as concerts and dinners; it was not until WWII, according to Diane Clements, Director of the Library and Museum of Freemasonry, and the Nazi persecution of Freemasons, that English Masons became more circumspect, a habit which stuck for a generation.
Yet the rumours and suspicions stuck, the legacy of secret society-blaming conspiracy theories invented in the bloody wake of the Revolution as people sought to apportion blame and create a narrative that would make some kind of sense of the bewildering chaos and horror. In 1797-8 Augustin de Barruel, a Jesuit priest who had emigrated to England, published Memoires pour servir a l’histoire du Jacobinism, in which he denounced the philosophes, Illuminati and Freemasons, descendants of the Templars; in 1797 Scottish scientist John Robinson published Proofs of a Conspiracy against all the Religions and Governments of Europe, carried on in the secret meetings of Freemasons, Illuminati and Reading Societies. Not letting the demands of logic (for instance, having the aristocratic French freemasons plot a revolution demanding their own heads) get in the way of story, these titles kicked off a resilient and popular genre that today can be found everywhere from chatrooms to bestseller lists.
Stephen
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lauderdale
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Posted 16/12/2009 23:41:07
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I always understood that in exchange for not becoming involved in Politics or Religion, (hence the continuing ban on those subjects being discussed in Malecraft Lodges), Freemasonry was exempted from that Act which was framed to catch Radicals, Correspondence Societies, etc, at the time of the French Revolution and afterwards against the early Trade Unions. However until quite recently the Secretary of a Lodge had to send in a return to the Clerk to the Justices in the area listing the names and addresses of all the members of that Lodge and that this was a condition of that exemption. So Freemasonry was never Legally declared to be a "Secret Society". Indeed given the promenance of many of the fine Masonic Temples in the British Isles and that in Scotland the times and places of Meetings are often published in the local newpapers I cannot see how the "Secret Society" tag could ever be applied. Indeed I see that Bro VM has posted in greater detail about this matter (see above)
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Mike Martin
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Posted 17/12/2009 00:05:02
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Excellent Master
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Alan Campbell (16/12/2009)
After reading a recent article regarding the secret societies act of 1799 which mentions freemasonry and the fact that we were allowed to continue working after dispensation from the government and local authorities, when did we become a society with secrets instead of a secret society. If it was good enough to be classed as a secret society in 1799 why did we need to change.First it was actually the Unlawful Societies Act of 1799 that Freemasonry was exempted from. However, if it had been an act to stamp out secret societies, the fact that Freemasonry was allowed to continue operating does seem to to illustrate (quite clearly) that Freemasonry wasn't considered a secret society at that time, as it isn't now. Here's a good article: http://www.freemasonrytoday.com/44/p09.php
MikeMersey Lodge No. 5434 WebsiteThe Freemasons'''' Grand Charity WebsiteSee my BALLS here
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postscript
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Posted 17/12/2009 01:00:12
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Vintagemalt (16/12/2009)
Far from being a den of sedition and treason, Freemasonry was highly visible during this period, processing and laying foundation stones and engaging in various other civil activities, and hiring out Freemasons' Hall for public events such as concerts and dinners; it was not until WWII, according to Diane Clements, Director of the Library and Museum of Freemasonry, and the Nazi persecution of Freemasons, that English Masons became more circumspect, a habit which stuck for a generation.
I've read this latter point a few times and I think I heard John Hamill make it on a TV documentary too, but I'm curious to know what evidence there is for it, or is it just a recent assumption? Are there Grand Lodge documents indicating a change of policy? Or individual testimony from Masons of that generation that they became more circumspect because of what happened on the Continent? It strikes me as a convenient theory but one which does not ring entirely true. The war was won, Naziism utterly defeated, the Craft had in its upper echelons such pillars of the state as the King and the Archbishop of Canterbury, and there was an upsurge in new members, often ex-servicemen. Were these really the people to be looking over their shoulders anxiously at Nazi attitudes to the Craft? I suspect changing post-war social attitudes and tastes were more to blame, particularly as the fifties gave way to the sixties, but I look forward to having my theory shot to pieces!
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Mike Martin
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Posted 17/12/2009 01:38:29
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postscript (17/12/2009)
I've read this latter point a few times and I think I heard John Hamill make it on a TV documentary too, but I'm curious to know what evidence there is for it, or is it just a recent assumption? Are there Grand Lodge documents indicating a change of policy? Or individual testimony from Masons of that generation that they became more circumspect because of what happened on the Continent? It strikes me as a convenient theory but one which does not ring entirely true. The war was won, Naziism utterly defeated, the Craft had in its upper echelons such pillars of the state as the King and the Archbishop of Canterbury, and there was an upsurge in new members, often ex-servicemen. Were these really the people to be looking over their shoulders anxiously at Nazi attitudes to the Craft? I suspect changing post-war social attitudes and tastes were more to blame, particularly as the fifties gave way to the sixties, but I look forward to having my theory shot to pieces!If you want to PM me your email address I'll send you a paper to read that may help.
MikeMersey Lodge No. 5434 WebsiteThe Freemasons'''' Grand Charity WebsiteSee my BALLS here
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Russell Holland
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Posted 17/12/2009 02:53:34
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Alan Campbell (16/12/2009)
when did we become a society with secrets instead of a secret society.
This is an interesting question that might throw some light on changes in the nature of the practice of Freemasonry.
These days the practice is philosophical, moralistic and ritualistic. It was not always so.
For example, a number of 17th century Masons belonged to the Invisible College. That surely was a secret society, members of which practiced alchemy and perhaps occult arts.
Perhaps there were/are other secret societies that find the outer forms of Masonry congenial. If so, there may be degrees or orders specific to such societies.
In the case of a secret society using a Masonic order as a cover, I would expect the new order or ritual to emerge from a new and self-declared grand body. This of course was common in the 18th century
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Alan Campbell
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Posted 17/12/2009 18:48:38
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Actually the act was called " An Act for the more effectual suppresion of societies established for treasonable and seditious purposes"The criteria to gauge what came under this act was A society which met behind closed dorrs and requires of its members an oath, or obligation not required by law. As freemasonry came under this criteria it WAS regarded as a secret society. and only after the prince regent approached Mr Pitt to speak on behalf of freemasonry were certain exceptions put in for freemasons. These exceptions were Any lodge seeking exception must have been in existence before the act became law Any such lodge must exhibit proof that a) it was working under a regular grand lodge and b) it was working in conformity with the rules of that grand lodge. Immediately after the act was passed ,a nd at regular intervals thereafter, two members of the lodge had to swear an oath before a magistrate or a J.P. that the foregoing conditions were being observed by the lodge. Within two months of the act becoming law, each lodge had to deposit with the clerk of the peace of its locallity a certificate confirming that all the conditions had been observed. Along with the certificate there had to be a list showing the names and addresses and occupations of all members of the lodge. These were exemptions for freemasonry which was regarded as a secret society and they were only granted because the prince regent spoke to the government on our behalf. The terms of the act were still being observed up until and after the end of the war in 1945. So when did we stop being a secret society because no matter how we like to change the past the facts remain that that is what the government regards us as. We no longer have to submit to a local magistrate or J.P. so does anyone know when and why it changed.
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Mike Martin
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Posted 17/12/2009 19:21:37
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