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Chapter and Mark

Posted By New2Craft 12/12/2009 12:09:54
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Chapter and Mark

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New2Craft
Posted 12/12/2009 12:09:54
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I've noticed that both Chapter and Mark seem to be promoted as being the natural progression for a Master Mason.  Most Mark Masons that i know don't seem to too keen on Chapter, they say Mark should come first because it was part of the Fellowcraft ceremony.  UGLE seems to promote Chapter very heavily, but I'm told that is becaeu numbers have been falling in recent years and now Chapter has relaxed some of its rules.

So, for those who have been in both, what seems to be the natural order?  I've heard some say i should join Mark before Chapter.

I know I don't have to worry about this for at least a year, but am interested to see people's opinions.

Temple Lodge: 4963 Junior Deacan 

Brunswick Chapter: 408

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dp
Posted 12/12/2009 13:40:29
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In my opinion Mark should go before Chapter as Mark could be said to be the completion of the second degree and Chapter COULD be said to be the completion of the third.

However all degrees stand on their own and we have had other threads about Chapter completing the Third (or not) so I don't want to really go down there. Suffice to say that logically the Mark should go first.

I am in both Mark and Chapter and love them both. I don't know any MMM (Mark Master Masons) who dislike Chapter or HRA (Holy Royal Arch).

HRA is pushed more by some Grand Lodges (sounding a bit like Lauderdale now :P) due to the close association some Craft GL's have with HRA. In a lot of cases the Grand and Prov bosses of Craft are also head honcho's in HRA.

Basically, it's political, and historical. If you look at the formation of UGLE you will find that HRA was a big point.

My advice would be to, when you are ready, join Mark and then HRA. However I would say that as Mark is a much simpler order I would not wait a long time to join if I where keen.

HRA is a lot more complex and you would be wise to study the Craft first.

Above all Freemasonry is about enjoyment and you should do what feels right to you, and when...

Thanks,

Dave...

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sojourner
Posted 12/12/2009 13:51:42
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It is a question that I have answered several times before on this Forum, so I'll give it another shot. I joined Mark (in England) a couple of years after completing my third. I then joined Chapter a couple of years after that. I feel that was the right way to do it. I am now in a Chapter in Scotland, where Mark is part of Chapter. It is also given in Craft Lodges here. That has reinforced my view that Mark should come before Chapter.

If I were to give a personal preferred order to join the Degrees, based on my own experience, it would be:-

(After the third degree) Mark, Chapter, Cryptic (Royal and Select in England), followed by other Orders that the individual might develop ( and have time for) an interest in such as KT's, Monitor, RAM, Allied etc

Those "basics" would "complete the circle" and give an overall comprehensive view of the Craft structure.

I have no doubt that you will develop your own instinct as to which way to go. They are all enjoyable. Best wishes in your choices.

Roy L.

"SELUME PROFERRE"

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Alan Campbell
Posted 12/12/2009 14:30:21
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Craft, then the completion of craft which is mark, then Royal Arch and arch mariner, then cryptic. 
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Mike Martin
Posted 12/12/2009 15:57:26
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In England, in a Lodge under the UGLE you will obviously only be pushed toward membership of HRA, this is because it is a part of the same organisation. Mark is mentioned far less as it means joining a completely different organisation (same with Rose Croix).

My advice to you would be to just say that you will make your mind up once you are comfortable with the Craft. I joined Chapter 11 years after Initiation and Mark 3 years after that. When you've been in long enough you will be able to make your own choice without pressure or direction from others. There is no rush to join anything extra, take your time and serve your Craft Lodge first,. Never forget that if it hadn't have Initiated you you wouldn't be able to join the others anyway.

Mike
Mersey Lodge No. 5434 Website
The Freemasons'''' Grand Charity Website
See my BALLS here
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justin357
Posted 12/12/2009 16:52:27
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dp (12/12/2009)
I don't know any MMM (Mark Master Masons) who dislike Chapter or HRA (Holy Royal Arch).


I do know at least one - namely me...!

I joined Rose Croix first, and then Chapter. I have to say, after Rose Croix, Chapter was rather a disappointment. Mark, on the other hand, which I joined a year or so after Chapter, was not a disappointment at all. I'd definitely second the folks who say join Mark first!

sincerely and fraternally,

Justin

(UGLE, Rose Croix, Red Cross of Constantine, Mark, Royal Ark Mariners and Royal Order of Scotland just in case it's of any interest!)
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New2Craft
Posted 12/12/2009 18:29:30
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The thing is whilst Mark is a degree I'd really like to join one day, my proposer being a very enthusiastic member of Mark and RAM, and the MH my lodge meets at holding a thriving Mark Lodge, I myself am keenest to get into KT (and KM).  I just wondered if Chapter members who have never been in Mark somehow missing out on seomthing and not able to get as much out of chapter.

Interestingly, I've also had a conversation about Secret Monitor in which I was told it would be wisest to join Mark and then Chapter before joing Secret Monitor.

I'd be very keen to join Mark, but the only thing that puts me off is that Mark is so popular that there's little time for anything but initiations.  I also hear that Mark is a very friendly and relaxed degree compared to Chapter.

Temple Lodge: 4963 Junior Deacan 

Brunswick Chapter: 408

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lauderdale
Posted 12/12/2009 20:03:16
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I stood out from anything for a year after I was Raised, and it took me 18 months from EA to MM anyway. I was then Advanced into Mark and then waited a further 6 months to be Exalted into HRA.

The various Degrees are complete in themselves but to fulfill the Hiramic Legend one has to also enter Cryptic, which I have done.

I always advise Brethern to wait a while after their Raising then be Advanced into Mark then Exalted into HRA.

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dp
Posted 12/12/2009 21:53:45
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Justin, now I can say I know one! :D

New2Craft, Mark only has the one degree (Advancement) and the installation of the Master so don't let the fact that all the Mark Lodge in your local Lodge is doing is Advancements put you off ;)

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