How deep is the HRA

Russell Holland (29/11/2009)

I recall working the veils one night in LDH. The officer for the second veil was seated between 2 curtains each of which was about 6 feet long.

She sat with her back to the wall looking out between the curtains down the length of the room. After the candidate had passed through and the lodge closed, she got lost. She was unable to make her way out from between the curtains. It was like she was in another world from perhaps 30 seconds. Then she regained her perception of the physical world and walked out from the curtains.

Perhaps the working of the veils was real on that night

That wasn't the same poor old dear that forgot how to knock was it?

I too think it is... unfortunate that the ritual was altered the way it was. Perhaps with regard to the word that was dropped it would have been better to educate the Companions on it's nature than to drop it...

A great book to read is "The ensigns of the twelve tribes of Israel" by Harry Mendoza.

Author	Message
whistler	Posted 27/11/2009 23:49:07
Fellow Group: Forum Member Last Active: 19/05/2012 06:18:23 Posts: 131, Visits: 1,122 570	It is good not to consider the Masonic Origins of this degree, but to look with care at the symbols within - Is it a story of a people on a Journey as some Masonic writers suggest? Look at the Hebrew Letters within the HRA - and remember that Hebrew is the oldest language still in use today - as we seek the hidden mysteries of our craft surely we will find some signposts in the HRA HGW Whistler Eastern order of International Co-freemasonry Auckland New Zealand ^{"Truth All truths are Truths of Period and not truths for eternity. What has been truth for the time was and is as good as men are capable of receiving}
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cuthbert	Posted 28/11/2009 01:41:09
Apprentice Group: Forum Member Last Active: 16/02/2012 07:53:23 Posts: 87, Visits: 282 376	whistler (27/11/2009) It is good not to consider the Masonic Origins of this degree, but to look with care at the symbols within - Is it a story of a people on a Journey as some Masonic writers suggest? Look at the Hebrew Letters within the HRA - and remember that Hebrew is the oldest language still in use today - as we seek the hidden mysteries of our craft surely we will find some signposts in the HRA I recently took the HRA and I enjoyed it a lot, I found it very esoteric and deep...IMO it's not the story of a travel but the story of the descovery of something that was lost long time ago. Unfortunately, they dropped the second holy word, that I considered very important from a esoteric point of view, I would have liked to be exalted with the original ritual, but they told me that this wasn't possible.:ermm: SW, Kensington Lodge 1767ASJ Chapter Forum 4423 New Era Mark Lodge 103
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Russell Holland	Posted 28/11/2009 02:30:35
Journeyman Group: Forum Member Last Active: 3 hours ago Posts: 413, Visits: 2,996 2,899	HRA shows signs of Sumerian heritage and Holy Arch may well be an Egyptian title It looks to me as if the later Jewish custodians hammered the circle of the zodiac into the straight lines of the Tree of Life and included their own sacred words but without being so bold as to remove the earlier words. As far as I can see the triple grip is the most ancient component.
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lauderdale	Posted 28/11/2009 08:44:14
Past Master Group: Forum Member Last Active: 10/07/2011 06:43:06 Posts: 2,122, Visits: 4,278 5,116	. Unfortunately, they dropped the second holy word, that I considered very important from a esoteric point of view, I would have liked to be exalted with the original ritual, but they told me that this wasn't possible. Bro Cuthbert, some Constitutions still use both words in HRA. I agree with you that it should not have been tampered with. Indeed it is a deep degree and some people will find much more in it than others as is the case in all of Freemasonry.
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sojourner	Posted 28/11/2009 10:27:42
Past Master Group: Forum Member Last Active: 45 minutes ago Posts: 964, Visits: 7,765 5,322	Bro. Cuthbert, I was exalted prior to the ritual being hacked about with. I considered that nothing short of vandalism. I now live in Scotland where the ritual and words have been retained in full and Chapter here also includes the Mark and Passing of the Veils. I also have old rituals of the ceremony when Passing of the Veils was still part of the ritual in England. It is a lovely degree and I wish you many years of happy involvement. Roy L. "SELUME PROFERRE"
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whistler	Posted 29/11/2009 01:29:37
Fellow Group: Forum Member Last Active: 19/05/2012 06:18:23 Posts: 131, Visits: 1,122 570	one of Neville Cryer's books on the HRA clearly talks of on one level of a Journey and when sitting in the Chapter - I can well imagine the gatherings he mentioned. Being a Co-mason we still have the beauty and esoterically important ritual of passing the veils - to be honest I would not be happy sitting in an HRA chapter with companions who haven't been through the veils. In the process of exaltation into Chapter the point which the ritual is completed is just the beginning - It is my favorite degree - My questions to myself are not whose symbols are present - more why they are there and there my personal journey begins HGW Whistler Eastern order of International Co-freemasonry Auckland New Zealand ^{"Truth All truths are Truths of Period and not truths for eternity. What has been truth for the time was and is as good as men are capable of receiving}
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Russell Holland	Posted 29/11/2009 07:00:33
Journeyman Group: Forum Member Last Active: 3 hours ago Posts: 413, Visits: 2,996 2,899	I recall working the veils one night in LDH. The officer for the second veil was seated between 2 curtains each of which was about 6 feet long. She sat with her back to the wall looking out between the curtains down the length of the room. After the candidate had passed through and the lodge closed, she got lost. She was unable to make her way out from between the curtains. It was like she was in another world from perhaps 30 seconds. Then she regained her perception of the physical world and walked out from the curtains. Perhaps the working of the veils was real on that night
	REPLY QUOTE LIKE 1
dp	Posted 29/11/2009 08:26:52
Journeyman Group: Forum Member Last Active: 01/05/2012 09:46:34 Posts: 1,079, Visits: 3,071 2,603	Russell Holland (29/11/2009) I recall working the veils one night in LDH. The officer for the second veil was seated between 2 curtains each of which was about 6 feet long. She sat with her back to the wall looking out between the curtains down the length of the room. After the candidate had passed through and the lodge closed, she got lost. She was unable to make her way out from between the curtains. It was like she was in another world from perhaps 30 seconds. Then she regained her perception of the physical world and walked out from the curtains. Perhaps the working of the veils was real on that night That wasn't the same poor old dear that forgot how to knock was it? I too think it is... unfortunate that the ritual was altered the way it was. Perhaps with regard to the word that was dropped it would have been better to educate the Companions on it's nature than to drop it... A great book to read is "The ensigns of the twelve tribes of Israel" by Harry Mendoza.
	REPLY QUOTE LIKE 1
lauderdale	Posted 29/11/2009 19:38:25
Past Master Group: Forum Member Last Active: 10/07/2011 06:43:06 Posts: 2,122, Visits: 4,278 5,116	Something important was lost owing to the bad actions of some but later recovered owing to the good actions of others.
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bob c	Posted 29/11/2009 20:57:10
Journeyman Group: Forum Member Last Active: 19/05/2012 07:27:41 Posts: 604, Visits: 1,843 3,733	I wasn't sure whether to post this here but here goes. I personaly find the whole of the RA workings very esoterical, as I've probably said in the past. I've added the following below to see if others agree. I won't paste all the page as those interested can read on for themselves but it should, I hope, strike a chord with RA masons, particularly the way it is worked in Scotland. Not everything is similar but there are some coincidences.;) http://www.crcsite.org/fama2.htm In the morning following we opened the door, and there appeared to our sight a vault of seven sides and corners, every side five foot broad, and the height of eight foot. Although the sun never shined in this vault, nevertheless, it was enlightened with another sun, which had learned this from the sun, and was situated in the upper part in the center of the sieling. In the midst, instead of a tomb-stone, was a round altar, covered with a plate of brass, and thereon this engraven:-- regards bob
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