New Zealand is not that different. The occasional parade sanctioned by the GL's executive does not make the occurence commonplace. And the Masonic Halls are quite modest as are the members (Went looking for the Halls a few years back, it took some effort, but got some lovely photos). In the work environment it is unusual to be aware who is and who is not a member. And why would there be a need to know? Who really cares?

I have tried to say this more subtly earlier in this thread, but feel the need to spell it out:

The difference in New Zealand is there have never been Loyalist marches with Orangemen in full regalia parading through neighbourhoods just to make a point. Over here, groups of persons in aprons, sashes and large banners however orderly are still associated with trouble and a political / religious agenda. Is that an mind association that UGLE masons would be happy to agree to to?

A question should be asked. How many actual UGLE Masons would attend and actively march in a "masonic parade"?

It is all very well keyboard warriors with an agenda wishing such a thing to happen, especially if they are not members of the UGLE and can easily stir up the mud then disassociate themselves from any resultant flak after the event. But what actual numbers would attend?

I guess the executive or Provincial Grand Lodge members may attend, especially after a three line whip, but would there be suffiicient others to make up a decent parade?

My feeling is that the various Masonic Bodies should give it a try. If it doesn't work  as hoped, if the public are not ready, then put it aside for a later time. My own feeling is that in our modern multi-cultural society here in England people would be quite at ease with such a procession.

Masonry in America has been pretty open for many many years. The Shiners are known as Masons for example. However a high % of kooks are also from America so I truely believe that this is a red herring.

If your Lodge prefers to practice it's Masonry in full view of the general public I for one would not be a member of your Lodge. No offence, it just doesn't sit with my own view of how the Craft should conduct itself. I don't need validation from intruders and cowens, which is what I perceve all this openness and parading is about?

Since the War Freemasonry in the UK has been declining, it has also become more open. And yet the solution to the decline is even more openness..Go figure..

3954

I would think that this is due to the following factors.

1 There was a large intake of new Brethren in Malecraft Freemaonry after WW2, and quite a few new Lodges were formed.  Much of this is thought to have been due to men who had been in the Forces during the war wishing to preserve the cameraderie that they had found in their regiment, squadron or ship. These "Boys of the Old Brigade" are now dying off, or are no longer fit physically or mentally to attend their Lodge Meetings. This will cause a fall in numbers.

2 Sons who did not follow their fathers into The Craft as many had done in former times. There were many reasons for this, some owing to the rejection of previously accepted mores and values which was typified in the Western World in the 1960s and 70s.

3 Smaller families have been the trend  since the 1960s especially in the middle-classes from which in England at any rate Freemasonry tended to draw its membership.

4  Economic recessions such as that in the early 1990s and the current much more severe one discourages people from joining organisations such as Freemasonry or even forces some to leave if they lose their employment or their income is reduced.

5 It cannot be denied that some of the adverse publicity both real, e.g John Poulson and Kenneth Noye, and some manufactured by the likes of Stephen Knight and Martin Short did not do Freemasonry any good especially when selectively reported by a largely hostile media.  My own personal opinion is that excessive Secrecy only helped the enemies of The Craft and was of no tangible benefit to offset such effects.

The decline in numbers is within the UGLE and it is not as straight forward as everyone tries to make it as we have been hit not just by death and resignation but also by the fact that Grand Lodge had been quoting memberships (figures from Lodges) rather than actual (cross checked) members. This meant that for example people like me who was a member of two Lodges actually counted as two members (this was highlighted with the introduction of MQ) rather than one member. This situation has now been rectified but it knocked over 90,000 off our membership numbers in one fell swoop.

To illustrate: at 01/09/09 the UGLE had 223,470 (not counting Districts) members, these members represent 276,839 Lodge memberships.

I must now ask you something. Supposing we were all to go off (as you suggest) and hide our membership, telling no one that we are Freemasons how exactly would you suggest that any prospective Candidate will know who to ask if they wanted to join?? 

Sorry but I'm from the South of England, I've never heard of a "Loyalist" or "Orange" march hereabouts so I 'm not following the logic. I know they happen in NI and may have happened in Scotland but England and Wales really? When? 

As previously mentioned I'm not specifically suggesting parades, they were referenced to illustrate a reality of the Craft's history that was being ignored. However, going by the parade at Beamish a few years ago (when the Museum's Masonic exhibit was opened) I don't think there would be any problems finding volunteers, I myself wouldn't be adverse to it. 

I am glad you have mentioned this, I had heard it before but not known the veracity of the information nor had any figures to quote. Thanks Mike.

Does it have to be an all or nothing scenario? Totally open or completely concealed. What about, tell if you want to, remain non-disclosed (i don't like the term "secret" it has dubious overtones) if you desire and no big song and dance or in your face strutting about?

As for prospective candidates, if they really want to know, they will find a way. Like for instance the first approach I made: leaving a letter at a Masonic Hall asking anyone that was a mason that knew of my place of employment or knew me by acquaintance to get in touch. At the time, that method worked very well.

Perhaps by making Freemasonry mundane or commonplace within the english model, the necessary mystique and "other world" nature will be lessened by the buy now, pay later easily gratified culture of the modern world. I suggest the very last thing that is required is a few more "celebrities" to join just becuase it is de riguer to get a photo opportunity during a Masonic parade.

Same as me Mike, I am sort of transplanted west London, myself. However, despite not being able to provide numbers or dates, I am aware that Manchester and Liverpool etc have visible Loyalist communities, and I am reliably informed but don't know personally, one of the Manchester soccer teams has a strong Orange/ loyalist fanbase, with songs to match.

But that is not the point, the news networks are universal, and the marches hit the papers and tv screens for all the wrong reasons with alarming regularity. On the rare occasion I showed my aprons to an acquintance a few years ago I was asked if I was a Loyalist. Quite ironic as my traced ancestry goes right back to Sir John Perrott, the documented instrument of Queen Elizabeths will in Ireland and alleged illegitimate son of Henry VIII . In fact, even though I am both a protestant and a royalist the Orangemen and their cause embarrass me.

Thats great, but of the rank and file, non Provincial or Met Grand Lodge dark blues, how many would attend other than you? If it is majority gold braid marching, what message would that send out to those not in the know? Elite, wealthy, and old need only apply?