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Stone Mason Guilds

Posted By Compass 05/11/2009 09:34:22
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bod
 Posted 11/11/2009 12:53:25
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If you think that lodge fee's are expensive you should see the fee's for livery membership!
Torrentius
 Posted 31/03/2010 20:38:55
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Dear Sir and Brother.

There is an Incorporation of Masons in Glasgow.They are One of the fourteen Incorporated Trades which still exist to this day, some of which date back to Mediaeval times. Many of these have links with their corresponding Livery Companies in London.

The Incorporation of Masons of Glasgow has always been closely linked with The Lodge of Glasgow St. John No 3bis. Indeed the incoming Master is expected to obtain a Burgess ticket from the City Chambers then join this Incorporation (if he is not already a member) and this, at least in theory anyway, means He is an operative Mason, allowed to carry on the business of Masonry within the bounds of Glasgow. It often comes about that the R.W.M. of the Lodge is also the Deacon of the Incorporation of Masons.

Interestingly enough, 3bis was the last lodge in Scotland to admit non-operatives (well into the mid-19th Century), which led to a schism amongst the Brethren and the formation of Lodge St Mungo.

The Lodge of Glasgow St. John has a very interesting history, well worth looking up, especially if you have an interest in the link between operative and speculative masonry. They were awarded the unusual numbering of 3bis when they agreed to come back under the Aegis of the G.L.of S., even though it was felt they should be higher up the roll.

They trace their formation back to the building of Glasgow Cathedral and their coat of arms states that they were chartered by Malcolm III King of Scots in 1057.

Obviously debate arises as to identifying them with the lodge mentioned in the charter (still extant) but when you think about it, it`s no less spurious a claim than Kilwinnings` to be idetified with their Abbey.

As Robert Gould said, "they are undoubtedly an old lodge and if you admit the authenticity of the documents I fail to see that their pedigree could be any higher " 

I hope this is of some interest to you. Maybe not the " Stonemasons Guilds" you`re looking for but certainly look up The Incorporation of Masons of Glasgow and The Lodge of Glasgow St. John No. 3bis.

Fraternal Regards.

E R + What exists beyond measure (order)
         In over-measure (disorder) will meet a bad end

dp
 Posted 01/04/2010 13:53:46
Past Master

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Torrentius (31/03/2010)

I hope this is of some interest to you. Maybe not the " Stonemasons Guilds" you`re looking for but certainly look up The Incorporation of Masons of Glasgow and The Lodge of Glasgow St. John No. 3bis.

That was a great post, thanks. :D

bob c
 Posted 11/06/2010 14:40:30
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There is a difference between the Scottish and English systems. Whilst England had Guilds, we in Scotland had Incorporations. Edinburgh, as most are aware, had an Incorporation from as early as 1475, granted by a "Seal of Clause". The Edinburgh Incorporations included Masons, Wrights, etc, within this charter, and they were also allowed to form lodges in which the same men were members of both, therefore running virtually side by side. I can't remember the exact offices and structure offhand, but Burgess and Master are two of them.

What is interesting is that Schaw in his statutes, instructed the "lodges" and not the "Incorporations", on what was required of them. He also required members to be tested in the art of memory, which begs the question, just what did they have to remember?

The transition period in Scotland is very easy to see with regards operative and speculative masonry and in this instance, could be the origin for (Scottish), freemasonry as we know it. The transition may also have had an esoterical feel to it depending on the "players" at the time.

I personaly think that the transition,(if there was one) was played out differently in England.

regards
bob


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