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Angus
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Posted 27/09/2009 04:49:51
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Is it sheer coincidence that there are as many degrees as ancient Egypt had dynasties? I haven't been able to find any connection by Googling various keywords.
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Russell Holland
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Posted 27/09/2009 07:20:18
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I suggest that:
- the dynasties of Egypt are a later academic construct
- how many degrees constitutes Masonry is not universally agreed
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Mike Martin
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Posted 27/09/2009 10:47:25
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Hi Angus,I am assuming that you're not actually a Freemason, otherwise you would be familiar with our Rituals and be aware of the fact that (with the exception of a couple of spurious 19th century Rites) our ceremonies do not illustrate any link to Egypt, ancient or otherwise. If our forebears wished to illustrate a link I don't think they would have hidden it so well that an actual Freemason would not be able to see it. Anyway now having searched the Net it appears that there were 31 "Dynasties", then the Greeks rolled in. I'm not aware of a Masonic system consisting of 31 Degrees.
MikeMersey Lodge No. 5434 WebsiteThe Freemasons'''' Grand Charity WebsiteSee my BALLS here
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lauderdale
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Posted 27/09/2009 14:32:32
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Even I agree that it is a bit of a tenuous connection, although I am a supporter of the Egyptians via the Templars ultimately to modern Freemasonry theory. I suppose if one includes the Greeks who I understand founded the Dynasty that ended with Cleopatra, then the Romans who had Egypt as a colony which was ruled by the Roman Emperor, then that makes 33 and there are 33 Degrees in Freemasonry.
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bob c
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Posted 27/09/2009 14:55:32
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Lauderdale (27/09/2009)
Even I agree that it is a bit of a tenuous connection, although I am a supporter of the Egyptians via the Templars ultimately to modern Freemasonry theory. I suppose if one includes the Greeks who I understand founded the Dynasty that ended with Cleopatra, then the Romans who had Egypt as a colony which was ruled by the Roman Emperor, then that makes 33 and there are 33 Degrees in Freemasonry.Hi Steve, To split hairs, only 33 degrees in the one particular order of Freemasonry:D
regards
bob
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Mike Martin
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Posted 27/09/2009 15:01:08
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Lauderdale (27/09/2009)
there are 33 Degrees in Freemasonry.Well yes there are a few Masonic systems that comprise of 33 degrees. However, for the above statement to be accurate you would be required to ignore all the other (ie non A&A(S)R) Orders that are just as valid. We also must not lose sight of the fact that the pre-1717 system seems to have comprised of 2 degrees and that the 33 degree (and more) systems came about much later in the 1800s. This could mean that it isn't a coincidence but at the same time it would show that it is an irrelevence to the original system.
MikeMersey Lodge No. 5434 WebsiteThe Freemasons'''' Grand Charity WebsiteSee my BALLS here
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Angus
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Posted 27/09/2009 21:51:36
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Mike Martin (27/09/2009)
Hi Angus,
I am assuming that you're not actually a Freemason, otherwise you would be familiar with our Rituals and be aware of the fact that (with the exception of a couple of spurious 19th century Rites) our ceremonies do not illustrate any link to Egypt, ancient or otherwise.
Quite right, Mike, I am not actually a Freemason (although my Iron Ring ceremony was not without like imagery), I just noticed that ancient Egypt had as many dynasties as (I perceived) Freemasonry has degrees, and was aware of the connection to ancient Egyptian imagery, and thought it had to be one heck of a coincidence.
Anyway now having searched the Net it appears that there were 31 "Dynasties", then the Greeks rolled in. I'm not aware of a Masonic system consisting of 31 Degrees.
The last numbered dynasty of Egypt was the 31st. The two Greek dynasties that followed represented just another phase of foreign rulership that did not stop Egypt from being Egyptian.
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Mike Martin
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Posted 27/09/2009 23:23:04
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Angus (27/09/2009)
I just noticed that ancient Egypt had as many dynasties as (I perceived) Freemasonry has degrees, and was aware of the connection to ancient Egyptian imagery, and thought it had to be one heck of a coincidence. There's my point, there is no real connection to Ancient Egyptian imagery within Freemasonry generally. There are a couple of spurious 19th Century Rites that are based on Ancient Egypt but that's hardly the same as the main body of Freemasonry.
Angus (27/09/2009)
The last numbered dynasty of Egypt was the 31st. The two Greek dynasties that followed represented just another phase of foreign rulership that did not stop Egypt from being Egyptian. I think if you read again and think about what I said. If we are looking for a connection between Freemasonry and AE there would only be 31 Degrees in the Ancient & Accepted Rite, which, by the way, has 33 Degrees because Jesus lived on Earth for 33 years.
MikeMersey Lodge No. 5434 WebsiteThe Freemasons'''' Grand Charity WebsiteSee my BALLS here
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Mike Martin
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Posted 27/09/2009 23:29:07
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Angus
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Posted 28/09/2009 02:10:47
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Mike Martin (27/09/2009)
Angus (27/09/2009)
I just noticed that ancient Egypt had as many dynasties as (I perceived) Freemasonry has degrees, and was aware of the connection to ancient Egyptian imagery, and thought it had to be one heck of a coincidence. There's my point, there is no real connection to Ancient Egyptian imagery within Freemasonry generally. There are a couple of spurious 19th Century Rites that are based on Ancient Egypt but that's hardly the same as the main body of Freemasonry.
That turns everything that I was told on its head. I thought that the pyramid on the back of American money was Masonic, and the eye was that of Horus.
I knew that Kipling was asked to write a poem that was read to us, but I didn't know the entire ceremony was his design. And, no, I didn't know he was a Freemason.
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