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Alan Campbell
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Posted 22/09/2009 22:51:29
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After reading chestnuts post in the reading room i am prompted to ask what rule 239 is all about. He says that the UGLE BoC states that if you are a member of provincial then you are not a member of grand lodge. unless you are the PGM. and you are entitled to wear a WM(I take it that this is Worshipful Master) or MM( this i take to mean Master Mason) apron, whatever is the higher. How can a master mason apron be higher than a worshipful master apron and how can you be allowed to wear a WM apron if you are not occupying the chair in your lodge, surely you would wear a Past masters apron if you were through the chair. Please remeber that i don't have a copy of the UGLE BoC and this question is coming from a non UGLE member.
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Vintagemalt
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Posted 22/09/2009 22:57:21
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Alan Campbell (22/09/2009)
After reading chestnuts post in the reading room i am prompted to ask what rule 239 is all about. He says that the UGLE BoC states that if you are a member of provincial then you are not a member of grand lodge. unless you are the PGM. and you are entitled to wear a WM(I take it that this is Worshipful Master) or MM( this i take to mean Master Mason) apron, whatever is the higher. How can a master mason apron be higher than a worshipful master apron and how can you be allowed to wear a WM apron if you are not occupying the chair in your lodge, surely you would wear a Past masters apron if you were through the chair. Please remeber that i don't have a copy of the UGLE BoC and this question is coming from a non UGLE member. Alan the UGLE Book of Constitutions is available online, http://www.ugle.org.uk/about-ugle/book-of-constitutions/ Rule 239 is on page 119/120 Stephen
Stephen 
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Keith
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Posted 22/09/2009 23:19:57
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In this neck of the woods, when you are first installed as Master of your Lodge, You are an Installed Master - and you remain an Installed Master until you die! When you have ceased being the Master, you then become a Past Master, but you are STILL and always will be an Installed Master. So the apron you wear with the levels is that of an Installed Master. THe apron remains the same whether you are presently the Master or a Past Master. THe only difference between a Master Mason's Apron and an Installed Master's Apron is that the former has rosettes and the latter, levels
Keith
PM. Waimarino 175
Kaimanawa 426
Waikato Lodge of Research 445
Taupo, New Zealand
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cuthbert
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Posted 22/09/2009 23:36:19
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Keith (22/09/2009)
In this neck of the woods, when you are first installed as Master of your Lodge, You are an Installed Master - and you remain an Installed Master until you die! When you have ceased being the Master, you then become a Past Master, but you are STILL and always will be an Installed Master. So the apron you wear with the levels is that of an Installed Master. THe apron remains the same whether you are presently the Master or a Past Master. THe only difference between a Master Mason's Apron and an Installed Master's Apron is that the former has rosettes and the latter, levels
I've always seen four Taus...
Anyway, this is slightly OT, but about the rank of past master...I think it's a separate, aka the "fourth" degree.
Proof:
1)You meet in a lodge of installed masters, all the masons below this rank are kicked out.
2)You take another oath alike the EA, FC and MM.
3)You are given a ps. and a tk.,
4)You change apron.
Please, don't stone me...:P
SW, Kensington Lodge 1767ASJ Chapter Forum 4423
New Era Mark Lodge 103
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Mike Martin
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Posted 22/09/2009 23:58:38
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Mike Martin
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Posted 23/09/2009 00:03:53
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Alan Campbell (22/09/2009)
After reading chestnuts post in the reading room i am prompted to ask what rule 239 is all about. Rule 239 just says we have to wear the correct Regalia at meetings. However, Chestnut's point was that being a Provincial Grand whatever is not a rank within Grand Lodge itself just in that Provincial Grand L:odge. Therefore someone who is a Past Provincial Sword Swiveller attending GL Quarterly Communications should appear clothed as an Installed Master.
MikeMersey Lodge No. 5434 WebsiteThe Freemasons'''' Grand Charity WebsiteSee my BALLS here
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chestnut
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Posted 23/09/2009 06:34:35
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I do like Past Provincial sword swiveller. I think it has a ceratin ring to it, but assume this replaced the PP sword swallower due to unfortunate accidents.
Mike thank you for explaining and that is exactly what I meant and in fact phoned the Grand Secretaries Office to clarify.
David
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Comfortably Numb
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Posted 24/09/2009 16:21:31
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Anyway, this is slightly OT, but about the rank of past master...I think it's a separate, aka the "fourth" degree.
Proof:
1)You meet in a lodge of installed masters, all the masons below this rank are kicked out.
2)You take another oath alike the EA, FC and MM.
3)You are given a ps. and a tk.,
4)You change apron.
Please, don't stone me...:P
When you are eventually installed into the Chair you will be told, quite categoricaly that "on this day you have not recived any additional degree in Freemasonry" Consider yourself Stoned
Well now you ask, yes, I am Pink :)
Craft
HRA Chapter
Mark
RAM
Rose Croix
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cuthbert
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Posted 24/09/2009 19:46:26
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Comfortably Numb (24/09/2009)
Anyway, this is slightly OT, but about the rank of past master...I think it's a separate, aka the "fourth" degree.
Proof:
1)You meet in a lodge of installed masters, all the masons below this rank are kicked out.
2)You take another oath alike the EA, FC and MM.
3)You are given a ps. and a tk.,
4)You change apron.
Please, don't stone me...:P
When you are eventually installed into the Chair you will be told, quite c ategoricalythat " on this day you have not recived any additional degree in Freemasonry"
Consider yourself Stoned
Yes, this is also said in the HRA and all the "high degrees"...the point is the rank of installed master is another degree in everything BUT the name.:P;)
SW, Kensington Lodge 1767ASJ Chapter Forum 4423
New Era Mark Lodge 103
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lauderdale
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Posted 24/09/2009 23:44:33
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De jure, being Installed as (R)WM of a Lodge is NOT a separate Degree. De facto however it has all the hallmarks thereof.
1 All below the Rank of IM are told to Cover the Temple (Leave the Lodge)
2 The Master-Elect is also put out of the Temple.
3 A Board of Installed Masters is Opened with its own Ceremony
4 The M.E. is re-admitted but has to give the Password, Sign and Grip of an M.E.
5 The M.E. Swears another Obligation, that of an Installed Master
6 The M.E. has another set of Signs, Tokens and Words , Working Tools.
7 Their Apron changes to one with Levels rather than Rosettes
8 Their appelation changes from Bro to (R)W Bro.
9 The IPM is Invested during the Inner Workings
10 The B.I.M. is Closed before MMs etc are re-admitted to the Temple as appropriate to their Degree.
Indeed, it was once the case, (see another thread on this) that to enter HRA it was necessary to be an Installed Master. To cope with the number of Brethren who wished to become Companions of the HRA there was a Ceremony of putting a Brother through the Chair. They were Installed but never actually reigned as Master of the Lodge but this qualified them to be Exalted into HRA. Was that not another "Degree"?
So according to the books the Installation is NOT a further Degree but if it quacks like a duck, waddles, has webbed feet...?
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