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By Terry - 01/06/2009 10:31:23
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Could someone please explain to me how and why "The Goat" is linked to freemasonry
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By Vintagemalt - 01/06/2009 10:58:24
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Sorry Terry I really have no idea, but here are links to a couple of articles you may find enlightening.. http://www.masonictravels.com/2006/08/masonic-goat.html http://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/goat.html or maybe not... Stephen
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By zambuk - 01/06/2009 12:02:28
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I have heard that a "goat" is an ancient lifting/moving device or crane consisting of two parallel uprights with one end on the ground, and with a cross arm joining the tops (something like an upside down capital "U").
A rope is attached to the centre of the cross arm and fixed to the stone (via a lewis?).
The whole assembly is then swung up and over past the centre, by means of ropes secured to the tops of the parallel posts, thus moving the stone forward a short distance, equal to the length of the two upright poles.
Something similar is seen on the backs of those rubbish trucks that carry a metal skip, only they didn't have hydraulics in the old days to do all the hard yakka.
cheers
zambuk
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By bob c - 01/06/2009 13:31:46
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Many scottish freemasons will have "ridden" the goat during their 3rd degree. Some lodges don't carry out this part of the ritual but it is all about putting your "faith and trust in God".
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By dp - 01/06/2009 13:53:32
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I have heard that in an old ritual the candidate had to swear to the "God of all things" or G.O.A.T Don't know how plausable that is though...
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By wolfy - 01/06/2009 16:42:01
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zambuk (01/06/2009)
I have heard that a "goat" is an ancient lifting/moving device or crane consisting of two parallel uprights with one end on the ground, and with a cross arm joining the tops (something like an upside down capital "U").
A rope is attached to the centre of the cross arm and fixed to the stone (via a lewis?).
I suppose this isnt the place to talk about a "handy billy"? ;) look that one up!
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By Terry - 01/06/2009 22:33:05
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bob c (01/06/2009)
Many scottish freemasons will have "ridden" the goat during their 3rd degree. Some lodges don't carry out this part of the ritual but it is all about putting your "faith and trust in God".Bob c, could you please enlighten me re your 3rd degree, PM if you wish, VM, many thanks for the links, and to the other Bros, thank you, certainly gives me some thinking to do
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By M Perrott - 01/06/2009 22:51:27
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wolfy (01/06/2009)
zambuk (01/06/2009)
I have heard that a "goat" is an ancient lifting/moving device or crane consisting of two parallel uprights with one end on the ground, and with a cross arm joining the tops (something like an upside down capital "U").
A rope is attached to the centre of the cross arm and fixed to the stone (via a lewis?).
I suppose this isnt the place to talk about a "handy billy"? ;) look that one up!
I thought someone from the Senior Service would have brought that up so let it go. Nice to see it has been mentioned.
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By cube - 02/06/2009 09:06:43
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Could it possibly be due to misinterpretation of "G.A.O.T.U." ?
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By Roy V - 02/06/2009 10:03:33
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"handy billy"? It's all about ropes and (wooly) pullies (it gets cold at sea ;) ) on boats. And Mark, don't get the wrong idea about Wolfy - he's only a sailor on pleasure boats, not the Ark Royal! The possible dyslexic interpretation of GAOTU has been wilfully misused in anti-Masonic websites, thereby attempting to link FM to goats, cloven hooves, Satan, Baphomet, and even wooden wedding rings for all I know.
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By M Perrott - 02/06/2009 10:26:02
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Roy V (02/06/2009)
"handy billy"? It's all about ropes and (wooly) pullies (it gets cold at sea ;) ) on boats. And Mark, don't get the wrong idea about Wolfy - he's only a sailor on pleasure boats, not the Ark Royal.
Thanks Roy (how are you btw), I had guessed that. I actually said I hoped a RN person had brought it up as it is a military term, no implication that Wolfy was a matelot.
Merchant fleet is just as essential to our shores, and good luck to all that sail in it !
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By Roy V - 02/06/2009 10:37:17
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M Perrott (02/06/2009)
[quote][b]
Merchant fleet is just as essential to our shores, and good luck to all that sail in it !Not so essential as a super-tanker full of oil, or Japanese cars, but over-rich American blue-rinses in his case, I believe. But still useful for bringing in hard currency (if you can call the $ that at the moment). Wolfy started his boating before, aft and up the mast in Tall Ships, for which I applaud him - I get vertigo standing on a chair - Installation was not easy!
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By wolfy - 02/06/2009 12:35:45
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haha thanks Roy, My Cadetship was on 36,000 tonne ro-ro ships in truth! then i went onto the square riggeres as a volunteer 3rd officer to help under privilaged youths how to sail the atlantic! lol then i was Mate on escourt tugs based out of the Firth of Forth and the Thames, and now i have the pleasure of "driving" the general british (usually) public on 69,000 tonnes of sea going splendour! and lets not forget what the QE2 added to certain efforts ;) and i work in the same company (umbrella company) so there we go, wolfy's sea going history! lol
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By sojourner - 02/06/2009 13:27:58
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I think the article: - The Masonic Goat
THE SHORT TALK BULLETIN
The Masonic Service Association of the United
States
VOL. 14 NOVEMBER 1936 NO. 11
which is shown via a link on Page 1 (second posting by Vintage Malt) pretty much covers it. :hehe:
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By Keith - 03/06/2009 00:46:04
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However, to return to the goat, there are various possible explanations.
THere have been pub signs of the Goat and Compasses, a corruption of "God encompasseth us". Many old Lodgs met in pubs and the association of Masonry with compasses and then with goats is easy to follow.
Also, and I ain't kidding (excuse the pun) many early Kiwi Lodges had their Lodgerooms in a small paddock which required mowing to control the grass growth. Some Lodges used a goat or two as biological lawnmowers. Goats are hardy animals and require relatively little care. Anyway, people could speculate on possible alternative reasons for the goats' presence.
And, as has already been mentioned, where a Lewis is a means whereby a heavy stone can be lifted off its base , a Goat is a means whereby the stone can be moved horizontally to a different location
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By Roy V - 03/06/2009 08:35:21
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wolfy (02/06/2009)
haha thanks Roy, My Cadetship was on 36,000 tonne ro-ro ships in truth! then i went onto the square riggeres as a volunteer 3rd officer to help under privilaged youths how to sail the atlantic! lol then i was Mate on escourt tugs based out of the Firth of Forth and the Thames, and now i have the pleasure of "driving" the general british (usually) public on 69,000 tonnes of sea going splendour! and lets not forget what the QE2 added to certain efforts ;) and i work in the same company (umbrella company) so there we go, wolfy's sea going history! lol Left hand down a bit!
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By wolfy - 03/06/2009 12:24:56
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your rotten you are!;)
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By M Perrott - 04/06/2009 11:15:19
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wolfy (03/06/2009)
your rotten you are!;)
What about his rotten? Is it illegally parked?
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By eastbeast - 04/06/2009 11:48:05
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At the risk of sending the thread seriously off topic.....All this Maritime talk is enough to make a chap want to splice the mizzen to the poop (deck) if it doesn't drive him up the bulkhead first.
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By Russell Holland - 04/06/2009 23:31:59
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The nearest I have come to the goat is discovering that the Kenites thought that their god (Tubal Cain) was goat-footed
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By Terry - 05/06/2009 00:20:57
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Russell Holland (04/06/2009)
The nearest I have come to the goat is discovering that the Kenites thought that their god (Tubal Cain) was goat-footed
Well, you learn something every day, thanks Russell
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By Jimmy - 03/07/2009 20:12:34
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Remaining off topic to continue the RN theme, you may be interested to note the badge of an Engine Room Artificer. http://www.shipscrest.co.uk/Embroidery/pages/Engine%20Room%20Artificer.htm BTW, this link is not spam, but the only link that I could find to show a clear image.
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By Roy V - 03/07/2009 21:17:06
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Ah, at last - someone who is likely to be able to pronounce "artificer". The number of Lodge Officers and Candidates I have heard make a lamentable cockup during a Third ... :w00t: So many people couldn't make "a fist if, er," their lives depended on it!
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By Jimmy - 03/07/2009 22:53:22
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Roy V (03/07/2009)
Ah, at last - someone who is likely to be able to pronounce "artificer".Easy enough when I've spent most of my RN career serving with artificers."Tiffs" was usually preceded or followed by some expletive or other. :)
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By zambuk - 19/07/2009 09:22:06
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Still off topic, and continuing the nautical Theme, when I was in Pusser's, we used to call Apprentice Naval ERA's (Engine Room Artificers) "Mobi"s (Most Objectionable (here insert slang name for a child of unmarried parents) Imaginable"
Still, without them, we would all be up the creek without a paddle!
cheers
zambuk
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